Question about Shotguns

mmarsh

mmarsh

Active member
Ok, stupid question I know so go easy on me.

I never understood why the load mechinism is different on shotguns compared to rifles. Obviously the shells are larger, but why are most shotguns 'pump' as opposed to external magazines. Why are shotgun clips and drums uncommon, both carry more ammo than having the ammo shored internally.
 
well i use shotguns for hunting and trap shooting pourposes

and the internal magazine with the pumping or gas blowback just leave less to catch on branches or in trees and such

i know when your driving ( pushing through a piece of woods with a team of people ) that you want as little as possible to be hanging off of your gun to prevent an accidental firing or jamming

other than that i really dont know why they make them like that
 
CDT.Ensign said:
i know when your driving ( pushing through a piece of woods with a team of people ) that you want as little as possible to be hanging off of your gun to prevent an accidental firing or jamming
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No. Where on earth did you read that? Please don't say personal experience.

The fixed magazine is so reliable that there's no need to complicate a weapon that will typically only need to fire a few times to serve its purpose.

Also, circular springs are a lot stronger than "square" springs; their spring force is not partially wasted at the nodes (or bends) that are inherent in a rectangular spring. It also takes more force to deform a circular spring, pushing it past its modulus of elasticity, turning elastic deformation into plastic deformation. Sorry, the little engineer inside of me told me to write that. :sorry:
 
im not speaking of that ,but when your hunting i know for a fact your not going to want to buy a shotgun with stuff hanging all over the place
and yes i do hunt bow shotgun muzzeloader you name it i use it
 
As far as shotguns for hunting, many (most?) states have restrictions on the capacity of a shotgun anyway. No real point in having a 10 round capacity when you are only allowed to have three shells in the shotgun.
 
You guys didnt get the question.

The question is why is ammo stored internally on most shotguns? While rifles, semiauto-pistols, SMGs use external mags/Drums etc. Why are shotguns different?
 
Maybe we did miss the original idea, but think about what you're shooting when you shoot a shell versus a bullet. Obivously, a bunch of little balls fly on their own vectors, while a bullet flies on one vector. Therefore, at close ranges, one shell=many "bullets" for all intents and purposes. As I said before, there's no need to introduce large, bulky, and complicated magazines into the mix, but of course they do exist (I think Saiga makes one, not sure).

I might chalk it up to a tradition thing too, sort of like revolvers, except the technology still works fine for its intended purpose.
 
There are many semi-automatic shotguns on the market and there are also some box magazine fed shotguns too.

The main reason is that because a shotgun uses many different types of shot.

Slugs
00 Buck
04 Buck
08 Bird SHot
etc....

Different types of ammunition create different pressure for semi-automatic gas feed shotguns. Most shotguns only work withion a certain number of shell types.

Hence the reason why most combat shotguns are pump/slide action types.

Hunting shotguns are built for hunting, not combat.

The main reason why most shotguns still use internal tube magazines is because of the shell design. To build a reliable semi-autonmatic or pump/slide action shotgun to work of magazines are worth it. Sure, you can reload faster. But it's not worth it.

Most combat shotguns can hold between 6-10 rounds in the internal tube magazine. Most magazine fed shotguns hold only 4-6 rounds. There is a magazine feed system made by Knoxx Armories that holds 10 rounds. But it's a huge plastic drum magazine. It's just to fragile.

In the end, 99% of shotgun makers look at it this way. "Why fix it when it ain't broken."
 
The first rifles that came out tended to be tubular magazine. Then they noticed with military ammo (longer cartridges than the winchester 1879, for example), you could fit more ammo in a box than in a tube (10 rounds in the SMLE, for example) and it was a lot quicker and easier for reloading. With bullets becoming pointed (spitzer bullet adopted by the german army in the 1890's) and hard (copper jacket instead of lead), in a tubular magazine one bullet's pointy tip sticking into the percussion cap of the next one (and so on up the tubular mag) and with the dodgy percussion caps of the 1890's, accidents will happen, so box magazines were just safer.
You don't have to worry about shotgun ammo having a pointy tip and setting off the next cartridge above it and the box magazine evolved from the tubular magazine so shot guns just stayed the same, it was rifles that changed.
Also shotguns were never really viewed as combat weapons until recent decades and were primarily used for sporting purposes before that. As you don't really need to worry about the turkey/rabbit/pidgeon/pheasant you just missed getting his gun reloaded before you, having a slow loading tubular magazine didn't really matter.
As to bolt action being prefered on non automatic rifles to lever action or pump, that's because the bolt/reciever lock when the bolt is fully closed on a bolt action, especially if it has forward locking lugs (mauser/ remington 700) instead of rear locking lugs (SMLE), is much more solid than on a lever or pump action (or straight pull bolt action, too), and as a consequence it is much more accurate for a rifle to have a bolt action. In shot guns this doesn't really matter as they are by definition short range weapons that scatter the contents of their cartridges over a wide area of the target. If you're shooting slugs in a shot gun your using the wrong gun for the job unless you're shooting at very close ranges.
Also have you seen the size of shot gun ammo? Even a ten round box magazine for 12 gauge ammo is huge. Most assault shotguns can hold 6 - 8 rounds. If you haven't got him with those first six to eight rounds then you need a bigger target or he's probably got you already anyway. Unless you're out hunting, in which case if you missed him six to eight times the turkey DESERVES to get away.
That's just my opinion, hope it's some help.
 
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Shotguns have always been combat tools.

Since the American Revolution, the USA has used shotguns in one form or another in combat since then.

WWI - Winchester 1897 Trench Gun
WWII - Winchester 1897 Trench Gun
Korea - Ithica Model 37 and Winchester 1897 Trench Gun
Vietnam - Ithica Model 37, Remington Model 870, and Winchester 1897
Gulf War - Remington 870, Ithica Model 37, Mossberg 590
War on Terror - Remington 870, Benelli M4 , Mossberg 590

Before those conflicts, in the Spanish American War and the Indian Wars, Most of the Shutguns used were either civilian models bought by soldiers or Lever Action Type Shotguns.

From the Civil War and back, Shotguns and Muskets were basicly the same. A smooth bore musket would load and fire shot just as it would fire a round ball.

The Blunderbuss was a shotgun as was many other smoothbore black powder guns. It's just that the Shotgun and Rifle became different tools when the rifled barrel became the main barrel used in long arms. Henc ethe rifle, shotgun, and musket are all different tools.
 
I didn't say that shotguns haven't always been combat weapons. I said they haven't really been viewed as combat weapons until recent decades (1960's onwards, primarily). They are forbidden by the Geneva Convention (that the United States never signed). German patrols in France in WW2 used to have one shotgunner. To shoot the pigeons they saw in case they were carrier pigeons.
 
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