Question about "Retired Military"

vetdaughter

New Member
Hi there,

I was hoping to pick some folks' brains and get some feedback about a nagging family question. My uncle touts himself to everyone as being "Retired Army." More improtantly he does this a great deal around my father. My dad is a vietnam vet. He was drafted and served an extended tour with the Corp of Engineers. He tells me about his experiences and is open about what he did and saw, but he isn't big into peppering it into social chit chat.

In an effort to avoid the draft, my uncle joined the NJ Army National Guard in the late 1960's. I believe he was trained as a medic, but spent his time playing in the local NJNG band. He did this for 20 years and abruptly retired as soon as the first persian gulf war was over. He has never been deployed overseas or in any local or national disaster.

I would like to know people's opinions as to my uncle's stance of being retired military and if, as active and former military members you feel it is fully appropriate that he presents himself as such.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read this entry and I appreciate any insight.
 
Veterans come in all shapes and sizes. Each have varying experiences, not all of those are forged in combat operations. Not all of those come from the active duty military either. The history of our Reserve forces is rich.

I think before you judge your uncle too harshly you should ask him what makes him so proud of his service. You may be surprised at his answer, and if not, take it for what it is and as long as he isn't making false claims, leave it be.

Your father's accomplishments and experiences are his own, the good ones and the bad ones and nothing your uncle claims will take that away.

People serve in different ways based on their abilities; mental, physical emotional etc.
 
If he did his time then yes he is retired, but he should present himself as retired NJ Army National Guard so that others don;t confuse him with U.S. Army
 
I disagree in a technical sense. If your uncle is retired from the Army National Guard, he is correct is saying he is "Retired Army". The Army National Guard and the Army Reserve are part of the Army. They received retired pay from the same source as anyone who retired from the active Army after at least 20 years of honorable service, albeit based on their actual time served and not until they reach 60 (I believe). Not all active duty retirees have seen combat and I'm sure there are those who have never served anywhere but CONUS.
The problem of his making your dad feel uncomfortable is another issue. If your dad served honorably in Vietnam, he certainly has nothing to feel uncomfortable about in the presence of any other veteran. Some vets like to brag about things they have done when in each others company and unfortunately some tend to exaggerate their service.
If your uncle wanted to be more technically correct I guess he could say that he was "Retired Army National Guard".
Even still, I really can't think of something a 20 yr. NG band type could possibly say to a combat veteran to make them feel uncomfortable.
Could you post a typical thing your uncle might have said in the situation you mentioned. I'm very curious.
 
Thanks to all for your replies. In response to your inquiry, DTOP, I believe my father's greastest frustration is my uncle's presentation to him, the family and his newfound veteran and retiree friends as having served as an equal "active" (for lack of a better term) retiree. He comments on similar experiences he and my father have had as "army men" without the recognition that their experiences are vastly different, as so many veterans, retirees and current members' are. As for what I remember most, I witnessed him present himself as an Army Retiree to my best friend, comparing and more so drawing similarities to himself and his experience to her husband. She in turn reminded him that her husband was actively serving in Iraq afterwhich for the first time ever I witnessed him then deliniate himself from U.S. Army and veterans.

He is very apt to talk about being in the Army, but never mentions the exact duties that he performed, which is unfortunate. I personally would be have greater interest in his service if he would actually talk about what he did and what drew him to service rather than that he was in it. I believe what offends my father is also the knowledge in the family that my uncle chose to enter the Guard as a way of avoiding the draft. While his service in the Guard could and should be appreciated, his lack of honesty as to why he joined and moreso his attempts to make himself sound as equally affected by that era as my father and other Vietnam Vets feels disrespectful to my father and to me. He has become active with the patriot guard and talks of the service and support he provides to families of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Knowing his gift of gab, I am often left to wonder what he verbalizes to them but I will never really know that and probably don't want to.

I should note that this is just part of a laundry list of actions, verbalizations and traits that my uncle exhibits causing disruption, so my question here is only one of many wonderings that can never be solved. I have experienced however his gift for re-writing the past in an effort to improve how he is seen so I have no doubt he may be adding and subtracting items from his service and experiences to make himself look more impressive.

Thank you so much for your responses and I continue to be interested in hearing more.
 
Thanks to all for your replies. In response to your inquiry, DTOP, I believe my father's greastest frustration is my uncle's presentation to him, the family and his newfound veteran and retiree friends as having served as an equal "active" (for lack of a better term) retiree. He comments on similar experiences he and my father have had as "army men" without the recognition that their experiences are vastly different, as so many veterans, retirees and current members' are. As for what I remember most, I witnessed him present himself as an Army Retiree to my best friend, comparing and more so drawing similarities to himself and his experience to her husband. She in turn reminded him that her husband was actively serving in Iraq afterwhich for the first time ever I witnessed him then deliniate himself from U.S. Army and veterans.

He is very apt to talk about being in the Army, but never mentions the exact duties that he performed, which is unfortunate. I personally would be have greater interest in his service if he would actually talk about what he did and what drew him to service rather than that he was in it. I believe what offends my father is also the knowledge in the family that my uncle chose to enter the Guard as a way of avoiding the draft. While his service in the Guard could and should be appreciated, his lack of honesty as to why he joined and moreso his attempts to make himself sound as equally affected by that era as my father and other Vietnam Vets feels disrespectful to my father and to me. He has become active with the patriot guard and talks of the service and support he provides to families of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Knowing his gift of gab, I am often left to wonder what he verbalizes to them but I will never really know that and probably don't want to.

I should note that this is just part of a laundry list of actions, verbalizations and traits that my uncle exhibits causing disruption, so my question here is only one of many wonderings that can never be solved. I have experienced however his gift for re-writing the past in an effort to improve how he is seen so I have no doubt he may be adding and subtracting items from his service and experiences to make himself look more impressive.

Thank you so much for your responses and I continue to be interested in hearing more.
V-Daughter ...
As one of 'those' who's experience included combat (Vietnam and Granada [over a 30 year period]) , I have to agree with your father and NOT your uncle. To compare a National Guard (Band member) Retiree, with those who served in the battlefield is a put down to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice and a put down to those brothers-in-arms who had to witness those acts . It denigrates their service and their sacrifices.

I agree with your father ... your Uncle needs to disclose the fact that he is a National Guard Retiree right up front whenever he mentions the fact he is a military retiree. To do otherwise, is a lie of omission.

BTW - there is nothing wrong with saying he is a military retiree as long as he DOESN'T compare his service with the service of those who served on the point of the sword. Not everyone who served, served in a combat zone .. HOWEVER .. to put your time into the military and qualify as a military retiree with an Honorable Discharge IS worthy of pride.
 
Chief Bones, for clarification are you presenting that combat veterans are somehow better or more worthy of respect than non-combat veterans? Ie, that there is a tier system in regards to the validation of ones service. I am not assuming this is your belief, I am asking if it is.

I would like to say I agree about the lying through omission, mostly because it would seem (through reading her posts) that her uncle wishes to leave enough about his service open for people to assume. All of the Guardsmen I've known that are retired refer to themselves as "Army/Air Force Guard retired" or "Guard retired," even those with multiple combat tours under their belts.
 
It seems that your uncle feels his service is inadequate. I agree that he should readily admit that he is a NG retiree. All your father need do is when your uncle starts his routine is to ask what exactly he (your uncle) was doing in 19xx when your Dad was in Vietnam. I would think that would be the end of the conversation.
 
Chief Bones, for clarification are you presenting that combat veterans are somehow better or more worthy of respect than non-combat veterans? Ie, that there is a tier system in regards to the validation of ones service. I am not assuming this is your belief, I am asking if it is.

I would like to say I agree about the lying through omission, mostly because it would seem (through reading her posts) that her uncle wishes to leave enough about his service open for people to assume. All of the Guardsmen I've known that are retired refer to themselves as "Army/Air Force Guard retired" or "Guard retired," even those with multiple combat tours under their belts.
PJ ...
Where did I even intimate or insinuate that a combat vet is "more" worthy of respect than a reservist - that is NOT what I said. My comments had to do with the uncle's comments that compared his "reserve" service with the service of those who HAD served in combat. It is a put down to every serviceman that gave the last full measure. I have had to listen to Taps being played over way too many close friends to allow ANYBODY to get away with that ... one of them was a friend that died in my arms.

Just so I am clear .. the Guardsmen/women that are serving and dieing in the Middle East today, are as deserving of respect as those friends who were killed in combat when I was a young man. Where I draw the line though, is a "behind-the-lines" wannabe, pretending his service compares to those who served on the point of the sword and claiming something he did NOT earn.
 
It seems that your uncle feels his service is inadequate. I agree that he should readily admit that he is a NG retiree. All your father need do is when your uncle starts his routine is to ask what exactly he (your uncle) was doing in 19xx when your Dad was in Vietnam. I would think that would be the end of the conversation.

May I ask a question? I ask this out of intellectual curiosity not trying to troll.

Why does it matter if he/she a military Retiree is Army or a Guard? If the person serves in combat does it really matter if hes a Guard/Army?

I understand that in Vietnam specifically its abit different as Guardsmen didnt serve in Vietnam while Army did. I get that part. But today in Iraq or Afghanistan for example we have both branches over there I dont see what the hubbub is about.

Is it an intra-service rivalry so something?
 
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May I ask a question? I ask this out of intellectual curiosity not trying to troll.

Why does it matter if he/she a military Retiree is Army or a Guard? If the person serves in combat does it really matter if hes a Guard/Army?

I understand that in Vietnam specifically its abit different as Guardsmen didnt serve in Vietnam while Army did. I get that part. But today in Iraq or Afghanistan for example we have both branches over there I dont see what the hubbub is about.

Is it an intra-service rivalry so something?
No rivalry. As I said in my first reply, a retired Army Reservist or Army National Guardsman are "Retired Army". There are some differences to be sure. They collect retired pay when they reach age 60. The active duty (full time) retired Army soldier starts drawing retired pay once they retire after 20 years or more of service. They are all the same branch of the service (in this case, Army).
Even in Vietnam we had Army Reserve and National Guard troops that were called to active duty (I recall a Maine NG artillery unit for example). That didn't change their status, it did give them active duty time though, as it does today.
It's a technical point. If I understand it correctly, in this specific case we see a part time, never deployed military person speaking as if he was a full time retiree with combat experience. It's just wrong to do that sort of thing.
 
PJ ...
Where did I even intimate or insinuate that a combat vet is "more" worthy of respect than a reservist - that is NOT what I said.

Well, that's the whole point of my question, Bones. I even stated that I wasn't assuming, I was asking for clarification.

Thanks for providing it.
 
IMO: I think if the man feels his service was inadequate, then maybe he should quit telling people? It's not the NG's fault that his service sucked, it's his. And then to cover it up by insinuating he's on the same level as those that served in combat, just another mistake.

It was his life to live, and he lived it. For whatever reason he chose an option that now, years later, turns out to be a bad deal. Such is life. BTDT got the t-shirt. I think the first thing he needs to do is grow up and be a man about it. Accept what it is and live with it.
 
I have a neighbor who retired from the Army Reserve & also served in the WI Army National Guard. His ID card is identical to mine & says "U.S Army Retired" on it just like mine. He gets the same benefits I do. The major difference in his retirement as compared to mine is I make more money than he does each month & he had to wait until age 60 to receive retirement pay whereas mine started immediately.

Another friend of mine served in the Active Army for 4 years & then finished his 20+ in the Reserve Component. He had more deployments than I had! His were a lot more disruptive because he was a part-timer & had a civilian life. Even owned his own business. I was always expecting to go to one place or another. Not necessarily fun but still expected & I knew it went with the territory. The 82nd was like that. Deal with it, transfer to a low priority leg unit or get out was the name of the game.
 
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