Putin: Soviet Collapse greatest geopolitical catastrophe

[fuser]

Indeed break up of Soviet Union is biggest catastrophe of 20th century.. It resulted in a unipolar world and gave a monstrous organisation free hand to dictate the world. "The NATO" under the false flag of freedom and democracy, all over the world they have been and are continuing to support and encourage monstrous dictatorship and colonization resulting in millions being perished and then brainwashing their own people and making them know "How good they are and how evil was "soviet union".

Down with NATO........Down with USA

 

[Atasas]

Indeed break up of Soviet Union is biggest catastrophe of 20th century.. It resulted in a unipolar regime and gave a monstrous organisation free hand to dictate the world. "The NATO" under the false banner of freedom and democracy, all over the world they have been and are continuing to support and encourage monstrous dictatorship and colonization resulting in millions being perished and then brainwashing their own people and making them know "How good they are and how evil was "soviet union".

Down with NATO........Down with USA

fu$k you on about?
For one, I was born in USSR, but I was always of my nationality- the reason of break up.
Flaming about without any sense- hard to not to take offensively and since I see your flag- burn India to the ground!:biggun:
Edited: The reason USSR did break up- too many nationalities and cultures were enslaved in one big "poo"
Down with this or that- my response to such pleasant wishes, my wish to burn...

 

[fuser]

Originally posted by Atasas
since I see your flag- burn Iran to the ground!

First of all it is not iranian flag but Indian....:shoothea:

And then rest of your post doesn't make any sense.....

 

[fuser]

I see your flag- burn India to the ground

So, you edited iran to india... hahahaha
Then, all your stupid gibberish burning and s**t....No need to comment....

The reason USSR did break up- too many nationalities and cultures were enslaved

Surely You don't know or don't want to know or just accept whatever you are fed about breaking up of soviet union.....

But interesting conclusion is that no defense of NATO has yet come... A silent agreement from your part...........:-D

 

[Atasas]

I see your flag- burn India to the ground

So, you edited iran to india... hahahaha
Then, all your stupid gibberish burning and s**t....No need to comment....

The reason USSR did break up- too many nationalities and cultures were enslaved

Surely You don't know or don't want to know or just accept whatever you are fed about breaking up of soviet union.....

But interesting conclusion is that no defense of NATO has yet come... A silent agreement from your part...........:-D

Do hate to have "Personalized discussion" , but since your intelligence had touched area of my know how bigger part, that you ability to express without flaming- her it comes: read my post again- I am from one of them countries (of ex-USSR) and do know better, that you opinionated hysteria on subject on why and how it had split up

A silent agreement from your part..

do not under no circumstance try to comment on my behalf- read on what I said! if I have not mentioned NATO involvement or praised it only because of reason I believe it is not as firm and proactive as it should be in my opinion. The need of NATO in the region is one and only one- Russia (commies like you included) having living in slum , seeing and commenting flame on subject with least of integrity or understanding

 

[fuser]

Do hate to have "Personalized discussion"

Then, why to start it in first place??

I am from one of them countries (of ex-USSR) and do know better

Again a false argument... If you are from one of that countries, it doesn't implies that you will automatically know better than others....

do not under no circumstance try to comment on my behalf- read on what I said!

First of all try to read what you yourself have written... Not a single line about NATO whereas my whole post was about it, you came up with gibberish....

The need of NATO in the region is one and only one- Russia

Your world is too limited boy..........

 

[The Other Guy]

Fuser, I don't know who you are, but you're winning yourself no brownie points on here.

The Collapse of the Soviet Union meant that for a short time, yes, it was a unipolar system. However, with the rapid rise of China, and the creation of the EU, it's just as even as it ever was, and more peaceful.

The need for NATO at this point is limited, and other than possibly being united against terrorist probes such as Al Qaeda, it does not have a lot of purpose. But who is it harming? The Russians, who have most of NATO where they want them thanks to natural gas reserves anyway?

As for the US; our last president was an idiot. Take what international relations happened between 2000 and 2008 with a grain of salt; Iraq has really been a bit of a disaster, however the ousting of the Taliban from Afghanistan temporarily knocked out Al Qaeda's save haven, and their attempt to retake it is rapidly losing momentum.

I'd insult India, but I'm not going to sink to that level.

 

[fuser]

but you're winning yourself no brownie points on here.

Neither are you. Don't know about you but I am not here to win brownie points... Stick to point if you could......

The need for NATO at this point is limited

NATO was created for by creating the paranoia of a communist soviet invasion and as now no such entity exist, Why is it still here?? Now, c'mon whom do these NATO countries fear??

terrorist probes such as Al Qaeda

Should have given this thought when you were encouraging them against so called evil "soviet union"... Probably thoose 10k people at 9/11 would have been saved...

who is it harming?

:shock: What an ignorance?? Do you know in how many countries NATO have presence??And why are they increasing it, why new military bases all over the world?? Why??
Ask serbs or iraqis or afghanis or pakistanis or palestanians or countless other nationalities..........

Let's see how UN sees an aggression Articles 2(4) and (7) prohibit interventions in the domestic jurisdiction of any country and threats of force or the use of force by one state against another. The General Assembly of the UN in Resolution 2131, "Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention," reinforced the view that a forceful military intervention in any country is aggression and a crime without justification....
So, how many crimes does NATO/USA have done????

As for the US; our last president was an idiot. Take what international relations happened between 2000 and 2008 with a grain of salt;

As if there really had been any difference between US presidents (Big Corporate Slaves)..Really tell me one thing on foriegn policy that obama has undone what bush started??

I'd insult India, but I'm not going to sink to that level.

Why would you do that?? For revenge :lol: Go on point out India's evil doings, What's wrong in it, Speak the truth....Anyways India is nothing but another capi shithole........

I can't understand why do you americans are getting offended by a truth, I have nothing against you people on personal level but truth is truth... If you have to talk to debate, do it there is nothing to be offended of...

it was a unipolar system. However, with the rapid rise of China, and the creation of the EU, it's just as even as it ever was, and more peaceful.

Now, once again China is rising but still is far away from being a superpower and EU what a joke is this:lol: EU stopping NATO/USA aggression... C'mon man atleast be a little realistic...
And world being more peaceful... Yes ofcoure it has been as without any big power to oppose NATO/USA their and their henchmen's losses in any conflict has been reduced...Small countries will seldom try to put a military ressistance... Yeah, great going

 

[The Other Guy]

Neither are you. Don't know about you but I am not here to win brownie points... Stick to point if you could......

Just pointing out that it's not a good idea to insult the US in a board full of Americans.

NATO was created for by creating the paranoia of a communist soviet invasion and as now no such entity exist, Why is it still here?? Now, c'mon whom do these NATO countries fear??

The NATO Countries were already First World countries, they were the top dogs anyway. Do you really think the British feared anyone before NATO, WWII notwithstanding?

Should have given this thought when you were encouraging them against so called evil "soviet union"... Probably thoose 10k people at 9/11 would have been saved...

Al Qaeda did not exist during the Soviet-Afghani War; it was formed in 1988, after the war's conclusion.

:shock: What an ignorance?? Do you know in how many countries NATO have presence??And why are they increasing it, why new military bases all over the world?? Why??
Ask serbs or iraqis or afghanis or pakistanis or palestanians or countless other nationalities..........

They haven't exactly played very nicely. Iraq, I give you. Afghanistan is the home of a group that attempted to blow us up. Serbia committed genocide. Pakistan is on our side in fighting the Taliban. Palestinians are blowing up one of our closest Allies. So yes, we have bases there. Has India not been trying to take Kashmir since the 40s?

Let's see how UN sees an aggression Articles 2(4) and (7) prohibit interventions in the domestic jurisdiction of any country and threats of force or the use of force by one state against another. The General Assembly of the UN in Resolution 2131, "Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention," reinforced the view that a forceful military intervention in any country is aggression and a crime without justification....
So, how many crimes does NATO/USA have done????

And it's the UN, they should have the power to stop any action they deem improper. And they haven't, so looks like NATO is in the clear.

As if there really had been any difference between US presidents (Big Corporate Slaves)..Really tell me one thing on foriegn policy that obama has undone what bush started??

How about setting up the end of the Iraq War? Setting a plan for withdrawal in Afghanistan? Re-establishing talks with Iran? Increasing aid to India by $4.5 Million in reversing Bush's 35% cut of 2007? But I'm sure you know all about that.

Why would you do that?? For revenge :lol: Go on point out India's evil doings, What's wrong in it, Speak the truth....Anyways India is nothing but another capi shithole........

I don't need to do that. You know what's wrong, you live there. I've never been there, not my problem. By the way, are you a fascist?

I can't understand why do you americans are getting offended by a truth, I have nothing against you people on personal level but truth is truth... If you have to talk to debate, do it there is nothing to be offended of...

Am I not debating your posts right now?

Now, once again China is rising but still is far away from being a superpower and EU what a joke is this:lol: EU stopping NATO/USA aggression... C'mon man atleast be a little realistic...
And world being more peaceful... Yes ofcoure it has been as without any big power to oppose NATO/USA their and their henchmen's losses in any conflict has been reduced...Small countries will seldom try to put a military ressistance... Yeah, great going

China has control of the majority of the world's economy, including the US. The EU rivals the US's buying power in the world market.

Another question, you live in India, are you Hindu or Muslim?

 

[fuser]

Just pointing out that it's not a good idea to insult the US in a board full of Americans.

Why?? Anyway i never insulted US... The truth is truth its not my problem if someone takes it as an insult.....

Do you really think the British feared anyone before NATO, WWII notwithstanding?

Yes they were very afraid... very very.......If you only take a look at their cold war military doctrine... Loosely speaking their master plan was to hold the continent (not just british but western european plan) for 8 weeks until men and resources come from atlantic in case of a soviet invasion...
You may also wanna take a look at the operation square leg conducted by british, enough to show their level of fear...
I go by facts not what someone thinks.....

Al Qaeda did not exist during the Soviet-Afghani War; it was formed in 1988, after the war's conclusion.

C'mon if you knew anything about al qaueda, you would have understand me.... Tell me who were the people who started al qaueda ??
The same guys whom US provided money and weapons and even training through pakistan......

Afghanistan is the home of a group that attempted to blow us up

And afghanistan is also home of innocent children and women who were burned alive by air raids of US/NATO more than 50 times the loss...
By the way same country was going through a lots of positive changes like equal rights for women, modern education, end of all types of feudalism and all these stuff under its communist government on whose request (a legitmate government's request) soviet union intervened and against whom US/NATO encouraged the islamist extremist, who now are ironically their nemesis...
On a different point though I do not support military actions in afghanistan taken by USSR.....

Serbia committed genocide

And in return you commited genocide against them...
From when did US/NATO has been so sentimental about genocides....
Oh yes by supporting indonesian genocide by supporting cambodian genocide by supporting greek genocide by supporting east pakistani genocide and countless more..........
Read more about yugoslav wars other than US sources........

Has India not been trying to take Kashmir since the 40s?

Why to point this anyway?? What has to do it with the debate... When did I said hail India, Kashmir is ours......
They both India and pakistan are trying to take it and you surely don't know the political history of kashmir to comment on it... Its much much complex..
The only victim is people..........

And it's the UN, they should have the power to stop any action they deem improper. And they haven't, so looks like NATO is in the clear.

Ofcourse UN is nothing but a puppet at the hand of US/NATO... Its charter and rules are only remembered when it has to be used against someone who doesn't comply with US/NATO....Another chain of this monstrous organization......

How about setting up the end of the Iraq War? Setting a plan for withdrawal in Afghanistan?

Bush had also plan for ending war in Iraq.. Seriously is the US propaganda that successful.... Withdrawal from afghanistan by increasing troops in there..

Re-establishing talks with Iran? Increasing aid to India by $4.5 Million in reversing Bush's 35% cut of 2007? But I'm sure you know all about that.

Yes I know about them as its clear who needs a more deeper understanding...And also keep threatening Iran way to go.....
And about India, oh yeah as if its a big deal that will effect the relations or politics of south asia or USA-India... C'mon
Any way obama is a coke president or pepsi president and no matter if you take this Q as a stupid sarcasm but instead its a freaking serious question....

I don't need to do that. You know what's wrong, you live there. I've never been there, not my problem. By the way, are you a fascist?

If you don't need to do that, then why to point out??
No, I am not a fascist, I am way far from it... Geez first time I have been labeled as a fascist.....

Am I not debating your posts right now?

Yes, way to go.......Seriously, mate I have nothing against americans or any nationality.. Personally You people are gr8:cheers:

China has control of the majority of the world's economy, including the US

C'mon china is still way behind controlling the economy, they are still characterized as "Developing World".

The EU rivals the US's buying power in the world market.

They are not challenging US but working in tandem with it and there are other factor too like Military

Another question, you live in India, are you Hindu or Muslim?

I was born in a hindu family but to me every religion is crap...
To sum it up I am not proud of anything that I inherited the day I was born........Any ways as you put this Question, I would like to share that India have largest population of sikhs and Hindus in world, 2nd largest muslim population and 7th largest christian population....
And all are crap........

 

[The Other Guy]

Why?? Anyway i never insulted US... The truth is truth its not my problem if someone takes it as an insult.....

"Down with USA," you said. Not exactly taking that as flowers and chocolates.

Yes they were very afraid... very very.......If you only take a look at their cold war military doctrine... Loosely speaking their master plan was to hold the continent (not just british but western european plan) for 8 weeks until men and resources come from atlantic in case of a soviet invasion...
You may also wanna take a look at the operation square leg conducted by british, enough to show their level of fear...
I go by facts not what someone thinks.....

But NATO existed during the Cold War, throughout roughly the entire time the Soviets were a nuclear power. The Western European plan was the NATO plan, because Western Europe was NATO.

C'mon if you knew anything about al qaueda, you would have understand me.... Tell me who were the people who started al qaueda ??
The same guys whom US provided money and weapons and even training through pakistan......

Because they won and suddenly found themselves sans funding stuck in Afghanistan with no one to fight. The US only became a target after the stationing of their forces in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.

And afghanistan is also home of innocent children and women who were burned alive by air raids of US/NATO more than 50 times the loss...
By the way same country was going through a lots of positive changes like equal rights for women, modern education, end of all types of feudalism and all these stuff under its communist government on whose request (a legitmate government's request) soviet union intervened and against whom US/NATO encouraged the islamist extremist, who now are ironically their nemesis...
On a different point though I do not support military actions in afghanistan taken by USSR.....

Without our funding, it's doubtful the communist government would have survived anyway. I mean, look at Iran's capitalist government, and how long it lasted even with our support. Had neither the US or the Sovet Union intervened it's more than likely the same result would have been achieved.

And in return you commited genocide against them...
From when did US/NATO has been so sentimental about genocides....
Oh yes by supporting indonesian genocide by supporting cambodian genocide by supporting greek genocide by supporting east pakistani genocide and countless more..........
Read more about yugoslav wars other than US sources........

That's like saying the Allies committed genocide against Aryans in WWII, it just doesn't make sense. We didn't support the Cambodian genocide of Pol Pot; he was communist. It wasn't just the Soviets we were after, hence our interventions in Vietnam, China, and Korea.

Why to point this anyway?? What has to do it with the debate... When did I said hail India, Kashmir is ours......
They both India and pakistan are trying to take it and you surely don't know the political history of kashmir to comment on it... Its much much complex..
The only victim is people..........

What's the point of digging up a four year old thread to make this argument? You may have not said that, but where on here did I say hail America, let's take over the world?

Ofcourse UN is nothing but a puppet at the hand of US/NATO... Its charter and rules are only remembered when it has to be used against someone who doesn't comply with US/NATO....Another chain of this monstrous organization......

If the UN was a NATO/American Puppet, we would have had full support in the Invasion of Iraq. Instead, our biggest allies were Britain, Spain, and Poland.

Bush had also plan for ending war in Iraq.. Seriously is the US propaganda that successful.... Withdrawal from afghanistan by increasing troops in there..

No, Bush had no plan. That's why we're still there, Bush's lack of a realistic plan. And we can not leave Afghanistan as it is, an unstable unsecured country. While this is partially due to our own failures, leaving now would give the Islamic terrorists an open country to take over, and that would not bode well for any nation that disagrees with their ideology (i.e. over 200 of them).

Yes I know about them as its clear who needs a more deeper understanding...And also keep threatening Iran way to go.....
And about India, oh yeah as if its a big deal that will effect the relations or politics of south asia or USA-India... C'mon
Any way obama is a coke president or pepsi president and no matter if you take this Q as a stupid sarcasm but instead its a freaking serious question....

I suggest finding a different translator for this one.

If you don't need to do that, then why to point out??
No, I am not a fascist, I am way far from it... Geez first time I have been labeled as a fascist.....

Not labeling anything, just asking a question. And I know what's wrong here, while you don't, so why don't you just stay out of my country's business?

Yes, way to go.......Seriously, mate I have nothing against americans or any nationality.. Personally You people are gr8:cheers:

C'mon china is still way behind controlling the economy, they are still characterized as "Developing World".

They keyboard I'm typing this on, the monitor I'm viewing your posts on, the socks I'm wearing, the earbuds in my ears, the battery in my cell phone, all made in China. The US has the buying power but China is at this point irreplaceable in the world market.

They are not challenging US but working in tandem with it and there are other factor too like Military

Yes, the US military is superior to any in the world. Helps me sleep better at night. And sure, they're not challenging the US, we share types of government, money, cars, etc.

I was born in a hindu family but to me every religion is crap...
To sum it up I am not proud of anything that I inherited the day I was born........Any ways as you put this Question, I would like to share that India have largest population of sikhs and Hindus in world, 2nd largest muslim population and 7th largest christian population....
And all are crap........

Well here's a place we actually agree. I was born Catholic, I'm Agnostic. Religion seems to cause more problems than it solves.

 

[fuser]

Down with USA," you said. Not exactly taking that as flowers and chocolates.

Down with USA, not americans and with a very solid reason....

But NATO existed during the Cold War, throughout roughly the entire time the Soviets were a nuclear power. The Western European plan was the NATO plan, because Western Europe was NATO.

What do you mean here anyway?? You got your answer and the fact is they were afraid...

Because they won and suddenly found themselves sans funding stuck in Afghanistan with no one to fight.

So, after all you agree who encouraged those goons... they were Islamist extremist at that moment and they are at this moment too... Nothing has changed in their ideology except the target...
The fact is USA made Al Qaeda.....

Without our funding, it's doubtful the communist government would have survived anyway.

As you said doubtful, it would have survived very easily... But let's see from your point "So, your government thought that this communist gov. is not going to survive and came up with their master plan : Do, hell with all your reforms and armed the goons from taliban and al qaeda to teeth to fight against that government...........

Had neither the US or the Sovet Union intervened it's more than likely the same result would have been achieved.

That is why they asked for help and those extremist militants would have been crushed at that moment only, if it hadn't been USA arming and training those goons..

That's like saying the Allies committed genocide against Aryans in WWII, it just doesn't make sense.

Seriously comparing serbs with axis and NATO/USA with allies:lol:, you have demonstrated complete lack of knowledge regarding yugoslav wars... As I said earlier first read more about it other than US source...It isn't that black and white as you are suggesting.........

We didn't support the Cambodian genocide of Pol Pot; he was communist

Is USA propaganda so strong:shock: they could white wash the history from minds of their people.....Let me enlighten you then

The U.S. government's secret partnership with the Khmer Rouge grew out of the U.S. defeat in the Vietnam War. After the fall of Saigon in 1975, the U.S.-worried by the shift in the Southeast Asian balance of power-turned once again to geopolitical confrontation. It quickly formalized an anti-Vietnamese, anti-Soviet strategic alliance with China-an alliance whose disastrous effects have been most evident in Cambodia. For the U.S., playing the "China card" has meant sustaining the Khmer Rouge as a geopolitical counterweight capable of destabilizing the Hun Sen government in Cambodia and its Vietnamese allies.

When Vietnam intervened in Cambodia and drove the Pol Potists from power in January 1972, Washington took immediate steps to preserve the Khmer Rouge as a guerrilla movement. International relief agencies were pressured by the U.S. to provide humanitarian assistance to the Khmer Rouge guerrillas who fled into Thailand. For more than a decade, the Khmer Rouge have used the refugee camps they occupy as military bases to wage a contra-war in Cambodia. According to Linda Mason and Roger Brown, who studied the relief operations in Thailand for Cambodian refugees:


You see Why Down with USA

What's the point of digging up a four year old thread to make this argument?

Because I was not on this forum four years ago.. I have joined it recently and sorry but I forgot to see a rule which stated that you are prohibited to post if a thread is four years old:roll:

You may have not said that, but where on here did I say hail America, let's take over the world?

May have?? I didn't.. Instead I have been criticizing India..There was just no reason to bring up kashmir in this matter...And then I am not blaming you for any thing... Please stop taking things personally... Its not You I am criticizing for anything but the policies of your country......

If the UN was a NATO/American Puppet, we would have had full support in the Invasion of Iraq. Instead, our biggest allies were Britain, Spain, and Poland.

If UN wouldn't have been a puppet, the illegal invasion wouldn't have taken place in first place.......

No, Bush had no plan.

You say this then

Bush's lack of a realistic plan.

So, what are saying plan or no plan..... And if there was a plan have you read both the plans of bush and obama both, to judge which plan is realastic and which not.....

So, if obama do have a plan, realastic one :roll:.. Give me a number:thumb:

so why don't you just stay out of my country's business?

I can't because your country's business is to interfere with other countries business, waging war, supporting dictatorship, murdering millions... And what is ironical and sad is that You people are busy in discussing how evil a past regime was...:sarc:

They keyboard I'm typing this on, the monitor I'm viewing your posts on, the socks I'm wearing, the earbuds in my ears, the battery in my cell phone, all made in China.

C'mon man its a simple fact "China is not a super power." They have lot to do and its going to take time... Yes their economy is booming but is it sustainable??
Producing cheap craps don't make you superpower.....your personal relationship with a country and its product is not a measure of a country's power..Do you have any idea the difference of per capita between americans and chinease....Please take a look at these and many such factors rather than from which country does your ear buds come from Do you have any idea how many people are still under poverty line in china... After uplifting a major population out of poverty, this process in china has suddenly stopped... The % of people living under poverty line in china has become constant....

Helps me sleep better at night.

By burning childrens alive in their air raids... Yes, great sleep you have...:firedevi:

By the way whom are you scared of?? The goons who were made by your military only...
The real thing is to maintain hegemony over the whole world USA needs to maintain its military presence all over the world, waging war and all those inhuman things... And so that its people don't stand up against it, it has to maintain a "paranoia of fear" over his people... First it was soviet invasion paranoia, now its terrorism paranoia.......

leaving now would give the Islamic terrorists an open country to take over,

Your country have done it in past leaving Islamic terrorist "Taliban" to take over that country, now suddenly what's the problem:roll:

It wasn't just the Soviets we were after, hence our interventions in Vietnam, China, and Korea.

What do you mean here?? I didn't get it... But please don't get started on korea and vietnam much nasty stuff would come against USA... All those inhuman napalm bombs and agent orange and many atrocities...

I suggest finding a different translator for this one.

What you don't understood?? Be more specific....

Well here's a place we actually agree. I was born Catholic, I'm Agnostic. Religion seems to cause more problems than it solves.

:cheers:

 

[Shmack]

Actually this is kind of misinterpretation of his words. In Russia, when they say about tragical/catastrophic collapse, they mean tragedy of millions of families which were devided by the newly formed national borders and found themselves in the midst of numerous ethnic conflicts. One should distinguish dissolution of the country (which is a tragedy) and overthrow of communists (which is up-to-you-to-decide what).