Problem fixed. Very Good Post

ozmilman said:
Yeah, hey, let's not start a debate about whether or not Uncle SAm is gonna get bashed and who's gonna sit in his old rocking chair. I don't wanna see a decline in America, i just wanna see a decline in Americanisation/gangs/doing everything the easy way/fast food etc etc. America is the big kid that everyone wants to be friends with but nobody really likes, but everyone knows that they need. There's no need for a big argument to happend here, because the thread is just gonna get knocked down and it's a good thread, i don't wanna see that happen

Someone mentioned something about a dark age though, so i thought of something interesting. What if this guy nukes that guy, these guys nuke those guys, and all of a sudden global communications are down, society breaks down and all of a sudden we are on our own. No internet, no television, no satellites - nothing. Suddenly we have to learn about self-sufficiency and self-preservation. Cities would become murder holes, private militia would be formed and king-pins would emerge - the basest, cruelest thugs that had enough guns to run the show.

Those in close knit farming communities band together and do the best - they've got food, animals for transport and eating, they've most probably got weapons for defense and are remote enough for safety. But they will eventually have to defend themselves. Roaming military units, a government attempting to re-unite the country. Gasoline is only provided to those who control its creation. Economies fail, paper money is only good for burning and the real comodity becomes food, weapons, animals. We go into a semi-civilised dark age where small communities survive like they used to, and the tradesman is valued above anything else.

Are any of you prepared for that? Do u have plans? Supplies? Does anyone? I know me and mine would be able to survive, but what about u and yours? Any ideas?

Rich.
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Well thats the thing. The U.S. has so many ways of communications CB, HAM, Amatuer Radio, Military, Police, Fireman, Marine, ect....

You should rent the movie "Day After Tommrow", its an old movie, it's set during the cold war and the USSR trys to invade to the Fulda Gap and then we launch short range nukes the they nuke us, ect......

I know I and my family could survive. We have supplies, weapons, ect....
 
Okay, i'll see if i can find that movie.

We gotta remember though, that power is gonna be cut, we're gonna be cooking over a fire, our light will come from fire, our life will be about fire. Ammunition eventually runs out so we're gonna go back even further into the time warp. What scares me most is the idea of warlords rising up and chaos reigning. Our community would pull together in a semi-democratic order and we would be okay unless we have hundreds of starving people willing to kill us just for a mouthful of food coming straight at us.

At least there would be order again. Government on a scale comprehendable to the people under its rule, old fashioned ideals of work. A time of books, a time of learning, of defending what is yours. A time where a law protects the innocent, and a murderer cannot walk free on a technicality. A time where people care about other people and friendship is valued above everything else. And maybe when the lights come back on and the world is talking again, we could have become a better planet for the experience.

Rich.
 
ozmilman said:
Okay, i'll see if i can find that movie.

We gotta remember though, that power is gonna be cut, we're gonna be cooking over a fire, our light will come from fire, our life will be about fire. Ammunition eventually runs out so we're gonna go back even further into the time warp. What scares me most is the idea of warlords rising up and chaos reigning. Our community would pull together in a semi-democratic order and we would be okay unless we have hundreds of starving people willing to kill us just for a mouthful of food coming straight at us.

At least there would be order again. Government on a scale comprehendable to the people under its rule, old fashioned ideals of work. A time of books, a time of learning, of defending what is yours. A time where a law protects the innocent, and a murderer cannot walk free on a technicality. A time where people care about other people and friendship is valued above everything else. And maybe when the lights come back on and the world is talking again, we could have become a better planet for the experience.

Rich.
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That would be over a period of almost 200 years. Batteries, windup lights, shake lights, solar lights, and the such will be around. Alot of radios can be powered by solar power.
 
thought: considering our reliance (in many cases) obesession with the media and staying up to date with "news" i think if someone did manage to take out the communications to a large part of any country, there owuld be near total anarchy as people descended into mass panic
 
Yup, there would be anarchy - but most people would have the sense to listen to a battery powered radio or sit in their car and listen to the radio and there would be emergency broadcasts as the government attempts to keep people under control.

Rich.
 
ozmilman said:
Yup, there would be anarchy - but most people would have the sense to listen to a battery powered radio or sit in their car and listen to the radio and there would be emergency broadcasts as the government attempts to keep people under control.

Rich.
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Quite true. Not only that I'm sure the NG units nearby would update the public or atleast tell them whats going on.
 
Absolutely. However, it's when people start to figure out that stuff is not going to be like it used to that the chaos will start. Crime bosses are going to arm their men and they will fight with local authorities to gain control of certain areas. Everyone in those areas will be united by fear and they would have to do as ordered or suffer the consequences. It will suck for sure if anything like that happens, cause i like the Simpsons too much, and i'm sure i'll lose a lot of mates.

Rich.
 
I never thought of this post going this way. I actually meant to talk about a tactical situtation. But this works too.
 
Sorry for twisting things around like that dude I think the other discussion is pretty close to over now, so we can get back to the original discussion.

What would u do should ur country be invaded, would u try and form a militia with whoever you can and defend a certain part of your area, or would u try and join with the regular army at the battle lines?

Rich.
 
ozmilman said:
Sorry for twisting things around like that dude I think the other discussion is pretty close to over now, so we can get back to the original discussion.

What would u do should ur country be invaded, would u try and form a militia with whoever you can and defend a certain part of your area, or would u try and join with the regular army at the battle lines?

Rich.
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Well I'd go with a militia, and join the regular army, like in the Revolutionary War.

I'm only good with the guns, M14 or M60E3. Its either percision shots or Hell on earth for me. Give me an M1A1HC and I'll kick some :cen: .
 
I think I would get me and my redneck friends together, and form a militia. Kind of guerilla warfare tactics and the like. Look at the French during WWII. they had no real training, meager supplies, and few men, yet look what they achieved. Granted, they did have agents from England and the US drop in to teach them the basics, survival, concealment, explosives, but with the internet and field books out there, you could basically teach yourself these skills. I myslef know that i could survive in the wilderness for an indefinate period of time. I think that if anyone/nation where to invade the US, which really isn't as hard as some of you are saying it is(but we're done with that) they would have a real hard time trying to occupy us.
 
I'm starting to think now, even if we do go and join the regular army as militia fighters, honestly, what chance do we think we have if we have had no formal military training. It's all well and good to try and teach yourself something, but as a martial arts instructor i see dudes who have tried to teach themselves things before and it all comes out wrong. Take me for example, okay: I've got some good gear, i'm a good shot with ur basic bolt action rifle, i'm an adequate close quarters fighter with or without weapons, and i know some VERY basic tactics. But what am i gonna do against say, a Spetznatz (however u spell it) soldier? One of those guys would kill me 16 different ways, laugh at me in 3 different languages, eat my body and then do 6 different sounding farts.

My point is that it's all well and good for me to think that i might be able to hold my own and fight if i had to defend my country, but without being trained like a soldier i'm barely half as useful as a fully trained pro.

Rich.
 
ozmilman said:
I'm starting to think now, even if we do go and join the regular army as militia fighters, honestly, what chance do we think we have if we have had no formal military training. It's all well and good to try and teach yourself something, but as a martial arts instructor i see dudes who have tried to teach themselves things before and it all comes out wrong. Take me for example, okay: I've got some good gear, i'm a good shot with ur basic bolt action rifle, i'm an adequate close quarters fighter with or without weapons, and i know some VERY basic tactics. But what am i gonna do against say, a Spetznatz (however u spell it) soldier? One of those guys would kill me 16 different ways, laugh at me in 3 different languages, eat my body and then do 6 different sounding farts.

My point is that it's all well and good for me to think that i might be able to hold my own and fight if i had to defend my country, but without being trained like a soldier i'm barely half as useful as a fully trained pro.

Rich.
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Ok two things two say.

(1). The whole Russian Army isn't madeup of Spetznatz's, if you where to meet up with one I'm sure you'd be dead before you saw him.

(2). Watch Red Dawn, its pretty good for a fictional movie. Also, Spetznatz's aren't conventional fighters.

I have somewhat of an advantage over your regular Joe Smoe. I have done both the USMC OC and Army OC, am AFIST qual, qualified Sharpshooter w/ the M16A2, have a fairly good knownledge of today's current weapons used by the US, have a basic knowledge of most USSR weapons, can operate a T-62, M60, M113 and M48, have Basic SAR, Basic ES, Basic First Aid, BCUT Radio Op, leadership/followership training, LAND-NAV training, know the area very very well, can uses NVG's and TIS.
 
Well, i do know that not all Russian soldiers are special forces, i was just using them as an example, and yes i agree that i would be dead before i met him.

And Red Dawn is a stupid trashy piece of Americana that has no basis in reality whatsoever. It makes the Cuban, Russian and Nicoraguan (?) forces look like amateur idiots, and completely glorifies average small-town nobodies who would NEVER be able to pull off stuff like that, ESPECIALLY when they are just a bunch of kids. I can't stress enough how far out of reality that movie is. Those kids would not stand a chance, and neither would the average joe, or anybody actually. The thing about that movie is that the enemy always comes in dribs and drabs, little bit by little bit - there's no scouts, no lookouts, and they always seem to be in the perfect place for an ambush. On reality they would have scouts, lookouts, and if they were trying to get rid of a major thorn in their size they would send a platoon or more up into the mountains after those kids, not just a handful of soldiers, and u can be damn sure that those guys wouldn't walk into an ambush. Rubbish pure and simple, a product of the cold war and honestly does more harm than good. I've been told to watch it so many times lately, and at least 4 times on this forum, and it iritates me.

Not meaning to bite heads off, people just have to understand that life is not like the movies, and THAT particular movie has no basis in reality whatsoever.

Rich.
 
LOL,

Are you sure about what you just said? In Reolutionary War avrage Joe's beat back the biggest military power at the time.

Ok, the avrage Joe who has never been near a gun or anything of military value is dead. You sound like your glorifying the enemy forces.
The Cuban's sure aren't the best of the best.

I admit that about 40%-60% of the U.S. population would be wiped out.
 
Mate, what was the level of technology like in the revolutionary war? Have you had a look at the tactics during that war? Line up, walk in front of the enemy, fire your weapon, hopefully don't get hit in return, maybe give them another volley, go back to the end of the line etc etc... It wouldn't have taken a genius to figure out that they needed to use guerilla tactics to defeat that. All the average British soldier (during the revolutionary war) was used for was to stand in line and fire his rifle in the major battles.

Did they have planes? Smart bombs? Automatic weapons? Nightvision? Tactical options are so many and varied now that soldiers are becoming more and more professional. The revolutionary war was different, and u just can't compare it to modern times, you just can't - there's so many different things that factor in.

I'm not glorifying the enemy, but u certainly have to have some respect for the enemy, whoever they are. There's a real probelm with us allied countries (america, australia, new zealand and britain) in that we think that our enemy is stupid, and that we're invincible, and it's only when those poor dudes in iraq get out in the field that they realise that they are very much at the mercy of fate. We just have to come back to reality. Who's to say that we won't die in the first wave of bombing etc etc

Rich.
 
Yes but how many countries havew NVG's, A-Bomb's and really good training?

In someways we a re invisible and other were not.

I don't any soldier who thinks that the enemy is stupid, thanks to realistic training. Do they happen to have MOUT's, sims, ect.... in Australia. (its a stupid question.)

But, the main school of thought is, can they fight in unconventional ways or have ever had urban training? Most Western militaries do.
 
I thought USA is a young country and full of energy,She could withstand invasion from any country or ally on earth.
 
Yes, yes CS, MILITARIES, western militaries have the training. But average guys don't. That's the whole point. I'm not arguing the fact of militaries - i'm talking about Joe Blow who has thousands of dollars worth of gear and goes hunting with his buddies once a month. He's got no training, so what chance does he stand? He might join a militia and do something stupid that even your average, POORLY TRAINED soldier knows not to do.

My entire argument is based around the idea of the average person. YOU obviously have a great deal of training behind you, but i know for a fact that i don't, so what good would i be? That's my argument, the effectiveness of militia with next to no military training.

Rich.
 
Okay, I'm starting to get tired of the post being hijacked from me. SO let me explain the militia. There are many people, me inculded that attend training courses. I teach training courses. Yes, they are civilians joe blows. But they have the equipment and training. I'm talking about some people spending something like $20,000.00 US a year in these training courses. CQC, DEMO, SNIPER, and so on. And yes, there is also the idiot with the beat up mosin nagant running aroun in the wood and drinking beer. There are many folks from the first group. It falls under IDPA and other type of shooting sports. I'm talking about people that really know their sh!t. I'm prior service and I continue to train. There is alot of new things that you can learn. I'm also a insructor in combat pistol tactics and carbine pistol classes. And for those of you that don't know. It's a big business. Gunsite Academy, Straight Shooters Inc, & Thunder Ranch are just a few of them. These are are thplaces that teach and train everyone from US NAVY SEALs and FBI HRT to Civilians and competition shooters. SO not everyone out there is a dumb cluck running around playing GI Joe.
 
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