Prinz Eugen in 1945

MontyB said:
I imagine most of her heavy ammunition was expended in the last days of the war supporting German troops in East Prussia and covering the withdrawal of troops and civilians to the west (roughly 2 million troops and civilians were evacuated from the area between January 1945 and May 1945 and there are numerous accounts of the ships activities during this time including pictures of its main guns in action).

What I would suspect was removed from the ship once it docked was was the lighter ammunition such as AA rounds and the torpedoes.
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Tend to agree with this. Probably some AA rounds or secondary battery rounds.

NASAAN101 said:
Redcoat:
look, she didnt have any shells, all she could do floorit and hop she can out run them. BUt if she did have shell you better watch it, even with no shells she can still bite..
NIKKI
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Without shells her only hope is to run. She won't run long, she has no where to run to no oilers or colliers no replenishment vessels and no screening vessels. She surrenders, scuttles or she attempts to ram the vessels pursuing.

In all scenerios she doesn't survive. Surrender is what has to happen.
 
LeEnfield said:
Well she did not escape the Atom bomb that was dropped on her.
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Actually it did.
The Prinz Eugen was only slight damaged in the Bikini Atoll tests and was taken to Kwajalein Atoll where it was anchored until it sank at the end of 1946.
 
guys
Without shells her only hope is to run. She won't run long, she has no where to run to no oilers or colliers no replenishment vessels and no screening vessels. She surrenders, scuttles or she attempts to ram the vessels pursuing. ok lets say she rams all for she, can they bring there for big battlehships in this here: let the four battlesips trap her then let the destroyer go in and get a tow line on her then one of the destroyers, can bring her out then pass the tow line to one of the battleships, then let other three BB keep in then the group by have two on each beam of her then one behind her.. that just what i'm trying to day. but what do you thing. but over all what do you thing, is she dead meat or dog food?nlet just atay on this idea ok for a while ok.
NIKKI
 
A vessel of that size cannot turn on a dime. She'd have to turn and then set course at her intended target and get up steam. In that time the vessels who were the intended target would take evasive action. They would postion themselves to engage and most probably in the case of destroyers put fans of torpedos out.

Prinz Eugen cannot take the evasive actions that would necessary because she is intending to ram. She's ethier crippled or mortally wounded and put out of her misery.
 
The most serious damage the Prinz Eugen suffered in WW2 was in 1942 when she was hit by a single torpedo from a British submarine,. This caused exactly the same type of stern/steering failure as the Bismarck suffered. Fortunately for her crew she was being escorted by a number of other vessels, and they were able to tow her into port.
 
guys,
I asked thison one of my other forums: let the four battlesips trap her in one of the fjord in norway if she was able to get in to the north sea, then let the destroyer go in and get a tow line on her then one of the destroyers, can bring her out then pass the tow line to one of the battleships(KGV), then with the other three BB in then the group, two on each beam of her then one behind her.. that way if she trys anything shed thing twice about, but what do you thing, is she dead meat or dog food?
Nikki
 
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If she is not surrendering why hazard vessels to attempt to take her under tow? Hazarding his vessel is a career death knell for a skipper in any navy.

Not surrendering sink her. It's more prudent.
 
Guys
Not if they went her intacted! that my point! my point im not putting in here is they agreed to hand her to the US, ao if need to add WAshington in the mix her. so you have KGV, Nelson, POD, Rondey, Washing and the two DD's and Dido and Devonshire. what then?
NIKKI
 
The question being at this point in the war why would they want or need her intact to the point of hazarding vessels?

Bringing the Battle Wagons into play simplifies matters for the allies. They request the surrender she refuses. The allies advise the Capt. of Prinz Eugen to abandon ship within a certain time limit. The Battle Wagons stand off and hammer her to scrap metal with their main batteries.

There is no feasible reason to take her intact while hazarding captial ships or escort vessels.
 
03USMC,
they needed her intacted, biritain was giving her to us! ok what if it was Helmuth Brinkmann her frist CO, not Hans! how would helmuth play it, he would not have hande her over openly. so the questiong come down to, can you talk him down and se if he'll be willing to give her up, then if he dosent then sink her! But dont sink her off the bat, give him a chance to give her up!! that all im saying ok
Nikki
 
Wanted her intact maybe. Needed her intact doubtful. Especially if it meant hazarding vessels. At this point in the war it's not worth taking chances with your own vessels and the crews to attempt to take a belligerant vessel from a defeated nation under tow.

Your scenerio is that Prinz Eugen decides not to surrender, despite the fact that she is in effect unable to fight a surface action. Your scenerio IMO places too much faith at the allies need her intact and are willing to hazard vessels to take her.

Regardless of her skipper your leaving the professionalism of most Kriegsmarine officers out of it. Yes he has a duty to his vessels. He also has a duty to his crew in that he should not place them in harms way in an unwinnable fight. The war is over they know that. It's pointless.

I don't believe Brinkman would not have surrendered his vessel. I think the closest he come would be scuttling it ala Langsdorff and the Admiral Graff Spree.

The allies would have given the capt and crew a chance to strike their colors and be boarded. But I in no way believe that they would attempt an overly long negoitation.
 
03USMC
I never said that, i may have just had more faith in her, then most people.. Now with hel, he's in old school Commander, and if he felt like he can protect her and his crew he will.
Nikki
 
His best protection in this case is one of two things.

1. Honorable Surrender

2. Evacuate his crew and scuttle his vessel.


Any other action is a death sentence for both.
 
03USMC
one thing you need to know bout hel, That not him, Hel wouldnt give her up with a fight! if even if she dosent have any shells. he would have reather deid then give her to the allies..
NIKKI
 
I think thats your opinion. But again Brinkman was an expieranced and professional naval officer. Professional enough to know that the war was over. That he couldn't fight a winnable surface action with no main battery. That any action to include ramming that he did attempt would end up with his vessel being crippled or sunk and his crew endangered.

Which brings us back to scuttling ala Graff Spree. If he really didn't want his vessel in allied hands.
 
03USMC
The names NIkki, the one thing i sould have said is : i have ADD And my Slighy MR so if it seams like im coming across as a slighty brat, inm sorry i never intened to ok..
NIKKI
 
NASAAN101 said:
03USMC,
they needed her intacted, biritain was giving her to us! ok what if it was Helmuth Brinkmann her frist CO, not Hans! how would helmuth play it, he would not have hande her over openly. so the questiong come down to, can you talk him down and se if he'll be willing to give her up, then if he dosent then sink her! But dont sink her off the bat, give him a chance to give her up!! that all im saying ok
Nikki
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If I was to suspend reality for a second and look at the scenario from an end result position (aka the Prinz Eugen breaks free and ends up safely in a neutral port) the first thing I would have to do is look at where it could go and logically the answer would be Sweden as the only other option would be Switzerland and the day a heavy cruiser shows up there would be one for the record books.

Sweden despite dealing with Germany throughout the war also took in escaped Allied POWs and was more in alignment with the Allies than with the Germans so the result would have been that both the ship and crew would have been returned to Germany's allied control council.

The only other option available to reach a neutral port was South America (who were inherently pro-German) and to get there not only would it have had to slip its escort but also avoid the entire Royal Navy and a sizable chunk of the allied air force as its only two options were another channel dash or a long voyage and somewhat suicidal voyage through the GIUK gap (where I suspect almost all of the Allied Atlantic fleet would have parked to wait for it).

Basically no matter how you look at it there was no where for it to realistically run where it would not have faced impossible odds or destruction.

In the end the ship surrendered on the orders of its commander after expending the bulk of its ammunition and fighting itself to a stand still, there is nothing more you could ask of it.
 
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