President Hu and the Death Penalty

Dad and I often have political discussions and this one kinda peaked my interest. President Hu has used the organs of executed prisoners as organs available to other patients needing various transplants. People who need liver transplants just turn to a prisoner and get what they need...This has caused an outroar in the political community and I was just stolid...whats the big deal? Would you rather die or have a transplant? People against this policy often say that this violates the deads rights...when you are a prisoner, you have no rights...So what are y'alls opinions on this? Do you think Hu should be allowed to continue with this policy?
 
Exactly waht I said, but people seem to think that because the prisoners arent asked if they want to be donors, they think it violates a dead persons rights...Oh, wait a minute, dead people wont care...
 
Bear in mind the violations that carry a death penalty in this country include rape, murder etc but also political dissidents, religious activists, being a priest in an underground church, speaking out in favour of democratic reforms, attempting to organise ANY group not authorised by the CCP...

Whose organs do you think they're harvesting? The drug addict alcoholic child murderer or the tee-totaling college professor who has written a paper critical of the government? I know what my money is on.
 
Not to mention the fact that it is easier to sentence someone to the death penalty over there. Is it possible they find various malcontents and trump up some charge to sentence them and then use their organs for those that pay them the most? Conspiracy theory at it's extreme I know. But who knows what wheels get greased when someone in the upper echelon of Chinese society need an organ?
 
No, I don't think Hu should continue with this policy. This is a clear violation of human rights. Even prisoners have rights because they are still human. The state may own their freedom to walk among the country, but not the right to their body, mind, and soul. This is a lot like what Josef Mengele did during WWII with twins, dwarves, etc. who were prisoners. Sure he treated them okay but he did all sorts of horrible experiments on them. If the prisoners did not volunteer their bodies for science or donation, then that decision should be respected.
 
I believe the prisoner should be given the opportunity of donating organs. Who knows, someone in his family may need a kidney or other organ.
 
But just because the prisoner doesnt specifically say" I want to donate my organs.." doesnt mean we cant use them does it? The guy is dead, whats he gonna need em for? If im correct, the Chinese dont practice the ancient Egyptian art of burying the dead with their organs...so why cant we use em without consent? If the family needs an organ, then they get first priority, then they go down the list...whoever is first, gets the organ.
 
Its like I never even said anything... :roll:

How about in the USofA we start sentencing people with the death penalty who write a disparaging email about George Bush. Are you still all for harvesting the organs of these people or might you start to consider that the death penalty is issued in these cases JUST TO GET THEIR BLOODY ORGANS?
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
But just because the prisoner doesnt specifically say" I want to donate my organs.." doesnt mean we cant use them does it? The guy is dead, whats he gonna need em for? If im correct, the Chinese dont practice the ancient Egyptian art of burying the dead with their organs...so why cant we use em without consent? If the family needs an organ, then they get first priority, then they go down the list...whoever is first, gets the organ.

The point is that even if they are dead, it is still their body. You don't have to give him a $17k funeral, hell you can just wrap him in a paper sheet and bury him for all I care but it is still his body. What gives anyone the right to dissect the dead prisoner and bargain off his organs? Imagine if a first-rate country like the US or Britain did this; you can be sure as hell it'll be on the 10 o' clock news. It's just disrespectful of the dead IMHO.

I see this headed for corruption... rich politicians + family/associates in need of organs.... bribery.... sentence to death journalist who wrote a critical paper on government.... death sentence carried out in less than 48 hours... happy rich politicians.... happy rich ccp.... takes this and times 100 because the population in China is ~1.2 billion.
 
I believe that President Hu's polcies on this matter must absolutely discontinue. Unless the consent is given, it is unethical and immoral to harvest the organs of the dead. Furthermore, it is absolutely wrong to take somebody's life just for the sake of harvesting their organs. In fact, considering some of the circumstances under which these executions are performed (as bulldogg pointed out) , I would even go, and this is my opinion, so far as to call some of these execution areas a form of legislated human organ farms where the taking of human lives are carried out on a daily basis to provide organs for those that are the best off. In effect, humans would be treated very much in a manner not that much unlike the animals we send to the slaughter houses from which we obtain our meats.

Now tell me, considering everything that has been said so far in this thread, would that sit well with you knowing that a government could accuse and convict you to be executed on possibly false charges simply so somebody rich and high up can obtain your heart or any other harvestable organ? Sure wouldn't for me.
 
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What makes this a plausible scenario is that the laws in China are very opaque and their knowledge is closely guarded. Were you to desire to obtain a copy of Chinese law it would set you back 10,000 yuan (about 1200 USD). Consider that the average Chinese person only makes 400 yuan a month and it tells me they have no desire for the common person to actually know the laws of their own country. Much easier to control and manipulate someone who does not know the law.

Second, were you to muster the cash you must apply to the CCP for permission to obtain a copy. I can tell you it is rarely approved. So people are arrested for breaking a law they didn't and couldn't have known about and then sentenced to death with doctors waiting on the firing range to harvest your organs while your family is served the bill for the bullet.

And this is ok with some of you?
:roll:
 
bulldogg said:
What makes this a plausible scenario is that the laws in China are very opaque and their knowledge is closely guarded. Were you to desire to obtain a copy of Chinese law it would set you back 10,000 yuan (about 1200 USD). Consider that the average Chinese person only makes 400 yuan a month and it tells me they have no desire for the common person to actually know the laws of their own country. Much easier to control and manipulate someone who does not know the law.

Second, were you to muster the cash you must apply to the CCP for permission to obtain a copy. I can tell you it is rarely approved. So people are arrested for breaking a law they didn't and couldn't have known about and then sentenced to death with doctors waiting on the firing range to harvest your organs while your family is served the bill for the bullet.

And this is ok with some of you?
:roll:

Heh this reminds me of my visit to Vietnam (which is also run by their own cummunist party quite friendly to China's) last year. First country I know where it's illegal to bring a Minidisc player into. They said they had to confiscate it because it wasn't allowed in the country. I asked them why. They said it's against the law. I asked to see a copy of this "law" because, mind you, this was like my 17th visit to the freakin country since 1994. They refused. I asked how I could get it back. They said I'd have to pick it up when I leave the country plus I'd have to pay a "holding and services fee" which amounted to about $80 USD (the average monthly income in Vietnam is roughly $60 USD). Of course this problem was solved by slipping the "customs agent" a $20 bill.... Corruption :sarc:......
 
I agree with you on the trumped-up charge organ harvesting...but not all prisoners are in jail for criticizing the government, and i realize that the scenarios you all posted could happen, but for those who die in prison, are killed by prisoners, or sentenced to death for a haneous(sp?) crime e.g. rape, murder,can have their organs needed...no offence but china can lose a couple of people considering theyre the most populated country in the world..lol...
 
So you would agree with the statement that the value of a life decreases as the volume of a population increases?
 
bulldogg said:
So you would agree with the statement that the value of a life decreases as the volume of a population increases?

Not in such simplistic terms. But with certain qualifiers: Yes I agree.

Those qualifiers would be:
Under a government that uses it's people for their own gain rather than working for the people.

The morals of that same government being less than on par with world sympathies.

If the culture of the population is centered around death.

If the population far outweighs the ability of the culture to support it wholly. e.g. too many offshoots of the mainstream culture/religion may allow people to dehumanize certain atrocities because they are "Just a xxxxx" or "It was just a bunch of xxxxx", similar to the witchhunts of yesteryear.
 
I suppose that the organs of executed prisoners shouldn't be used for transplants for the same reason it illegal (in the US) to sell your organs. When corruption twists what might be a perfectly legitimate system, the most direct result is the loss of potentially innocent life.

...basically what Bulldog and a few others have said already.
 
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