Possiblity of a total nuke war during the cold war

[mmarsh]

Old Woody

If Israel was using the West Bank (they left Gaza 3 years ago) then why are the building Jewish Settlements and kicking the locals out? Israel isn't just protecting its borders its trying to deliberately expanding them at the expense of the people already living there. Thats why they are called Jewish Settlers.

You talk about Hitler, but what Israel is doing is nothing short of practicing Lebensraum, exactly as the Nazis did to the Poles in 1939. The problem is that Israel still believes that peace is still obtainable by keeping all the land they stole 1967, and remember it WASN'T the Palestinians that attacked them in 1967, it was Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. I don't blame the Palestinians at all for fighting back, if it were my land I would fight too. And in terms of killing innocent civilians, if you actually look at the score the IDF kills about 10 times more Palestinian civilians that groups like Hamas and JI do.

You complain about Muslim extremists, but there are Jewish ones that are just as bad and just as violent. The radical Kahanist movement wanted to expel every Arab (including Christians) out of Israel and expand Israelis borders from the Sinaii River to the Red Sea, (they argue a return to the old Israelite empire before the Roman empire). Of course they mean using military force to obtain this objective. And worst of all, these people are the ones running the Israeli government right now...

Believe me, groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not the only religious crackpots in the area. Thats a two way street.

As for a Nuke, thats a very real possibility. The Worlds patience for Israels shinnanigans is running out, even in the USA people are beginning to see Israel isn't the "victim" it pretends to be. Israel is digging its own grave, you mark my words. Someday some crazy Arab is going to detonate a device in Tel-Aviv, unless Israel decides to change its ways that day is coming...

 

[Korean Seaboy]

The possiblity would be next to nil

Both sides had various studies and research done, and both concluded that it would be insane. Judging that by that time, both had enough to send Earth to hell and back, neither would have won.
Also, everybody knows about the USSR having a backbone aim at the US through Cuba, but I would like to remind people that the US had a backbone aim at the USSR through nukes at Turkey, which probably triggered the USSR stationing nukes at Cuba

However, it's not an excuse for the USSR to have nukes in Cuba, nor for the US to have nukes in Turkey.

 

[r.fox]

they were playing a game of chicken together. but with far worse results.:firedevi:

 

[84RFK]

Old Woody

If Israel was using the West Bank (they left Gaza 3 years ago) then why are the building Jewish Settlements and kicking the locals out? Israel isn't just protecting its borders its trying to deliberately expanding them at the expense of the people already living there. Thats why they are called Jewish Settlers.

You talk about Hitler, but what Israel is doing is nothing short of practicing Lebensraum, exactly as the Nazis did to the Poles in 1939. The problem is that Israel still believes that peace is still obtainable by keeping all the land they stole 1967, and remember it WASN'T the Palestinians that attacked them in 1967, it was Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. I don't blame the Palestinians at all for fighting back, if it were my land I would fight too. And in terms of killing innocent civilians, if you actually look at the score the IDF kills about 10 times more Palestinian civilians that groups like Hamas and JI do.

You complain about Muslim extremists, but there are Jewish ones that are just as bad and just as violent. The radical Kahanist movement wanted to expel every Arab (including Christians) out of Israel and expand Israelis borders from the Sinaii River to the Red Sea, (they argue a return to the old Israelite empire before the Roman empire). Of course they mean using military force to obtain this objective. And worst of all, these people are the ones running the Israeli government right now...

Believe me, groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not the only religious crackpots in the area. Thats a two way street.

As for a Nuke, thats a very real possibility. The Worlds patience for Israels shinnanigans is running out, even in the USA people are beginning to see Israel isn't the "victim" it pretends to be. Israel is digging its own grave, you mark my words. Someday some crazy Arab is going to detonate a device in Tel-Aviv, unless Israel decides to change its ways that day is coming...

Ah, just a comment on the historic aspect...
While the term "Lebensraum" is connected to the Nazi plan of expanding into the Slavic regions of eastern europe, we should not forget the annexation of Austria and Sudetenland, and off course the invasion of Checkoslovakia.

There was ethnic Germans living in the Sudeten-region, and that made a perfectly good excuse to annex Sudetenland to Germany, and since the prior "owners" of that region (Checks) wasn't too happy about that, they were deemed as a threath, and thus invaded in 1939, almost half a year before the Germans started to invade Poland.

If German settlers on foregin soil made an excuse for annexing and invading those territories, so would probably Jewish settlers on foreign soil, even more so if the local population of the said territory consists of a different culture/religion.
That is, if you follow the lines laid out in Mein Kampf..

And after looking at a few pages of Mein Kampf, it becomes pretty obvious that Hitler's writing would stand little chance of ever being awarded a Nobel price in litterature.

 

[r.fox]

Its going to be a mess.. certainly unimaginable. As for the stratergy and all..I think Russia had a superior advantage. You got Cuba on the east of the usa, and Russia on the west. Thats only the beginning lol

:roll:

Yes that is true but i believe that the entire reason for the Russian placing the nukes on Cuba were the US missiles on Turkey.:firedevi:

 

[AVON]

Yes that is true but i believe that the entire reason for the Russian placing the nukes on Cuba were the US missiles on Turkey.

True but, the reason the USSR backed down is because the USA knew what the USSR knew, that they were not prepared to go to war on a moments notice. A spy Col. Oleg Penowski passed information which along with U-2 over-flight had found that the USSR's bomber fleet was much smaller than Moscow had bragged about. The Soviet missile force had very poor rate of availability and reliability. This information that President Kennedy knew the Soviets were not prepared at that time to go to war.

If the nuclear trigger was pulled even though the Soviet forces were smaller than the USA's forces, when all was said and done there would not be a lot left in the USA, the PRC and USSR. The USAF planned on making a wide corridor through the PRC, wiping out whatever they could and wreak havoc, then in the USSR hitting with a big blow coming from the southern border.
So in the first strikes the USA would have expanded the war from just the USA versus the USSR to include the PRC. The Soviets would have expanded the conflict into western Europe. The northern hemisphere would have been totally wrecked. The southern hemisphere would suffer from the radio-active fall-out, for it would have been massive. Destroying most large cities in the northern hemisphere.
There was a reason Gen. Curtis LeMay was so angry at President Kennedy for not using the Cuban missile crisis to start the war he knew the USA would win. (Win in what sense???) LeMay always felt a war between the USSR and USA was unavoidable.

Yes that is true but i believe that the entire reason for the Russian placing the nukes on Cuba were the US missiles on Turkey.

Yes, the USA had missiles in Turkey and Italy! So striking American interest where ever found would have involved Turkey, Italy, and most like Japan.

As President Kennedy once said, "in nuclear war, the fruits of victory are ashes in the mouth!"

 

[r.fox]

a comment that i have heard before and was especialy true in the cold war is "peace is being the guy with the biggest stick" oh and M.A.D.

 

[BritinBritain]

And after looking at a few pages of Mein Kampf, it becomes pretty obvious that Hitler's writing would stand little chance of ever being awarded a Nobel price in litterature.

I managed to get hold of an English translation of Mein Kampf from the local library in the UK. After wading through a few chapters, I gave it up as a bad job. Apparently Adolf made quite a few quid (Reich-marks) out of the book, newly married couples had a copy as a wedding present. It would make a good door step though.

I am 100% certain that M.A.D. ensured that the cold war didn't go hot. Although there were some scary moments.

What worries me, after the breakup of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, what happened to all the nukes the Soviets had installed all over Eastern Europe?

 

[r.fox]

What worries me, after the breakup of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, what happened to all the nukes the Soviets had installed all over Eastern Europe?

Errrmmm partisans?? :cens: it who knows apart from the base commanders? assuming that they themselves know...

 

[BritinBritain]

As for Somalia...that is currently the last place on earth anyone cares to dominate,be in,or fool with.

It's like a swamp with a pack of mad dogs. There's not much value to the swamp and the mad dogs make it not worth it to BE there to even think about what possible use that swamp might be.

Somalia has a LOT of armed lawless and irrational people. Somalia has a lot of HOT deserts and an uneducated underfed population. there's no real infrastructure or assets or stability. You could point to a place and promise me there's oil there if I want to drill a well...sorry..no investor will take the risk. No crew will be willing to drill there.
.

Bob Geldolf and his "Feed the world" concerts. How many of those who were fed are now pirates. He even got a KBE out of it for goodness sake. Instead he and his fellow bleeding hearts should get to the root of the problems in Africa, corrupt and greedy governments and their ministers.