Police Off-Duty Guns?

mmarsh

mmarsh

Active member
Something I don't understand.

Cops usually have a on-duty and a off-duty gun.

On-Duty I think is self explanatory. But Off-Duty I don't get. I mean I understand why they are needed (in case they need a weapon) while they are not working. But why issue a separate police weapon. Why not just let them carry their service piece?

Technically they are not working, so why not carry what they like as a CCW ordinary citizen?


And why are ON-Duty and OFF-Duty models different.

For example NYPD get the choice of (off a cop website)

ON DUTY
S&W 5946
Glock 19
Sigarms P226 DAO

OFF DUTY
Glock 26
S&W 3914
Sigarms P239
S&W 3953 TSW
S&W 640 .38

Why not just have the same gun if they are going to have to carry both on duty and off. Seems like having 2 different ones is a unnecessary expense...

Can anyone shed some light?
 
the way I understand it its very simple. The issue on duty weapons are fullsize pistols, usualy quite big and heavy. the off duty are usually smaller andeasier to carry concealed.
 
mmarsh said:
Something I don't understand.

Cops usually have a on-duty and a off-duty gun.

On-Duty I think is self explanatory. But Off-Duty I don't get. I mean I understand why they are needed (in case they need a weapon) while they are not working. But why issue a separate police weapon. Why not just let them carry their service piece?

Technically they are not working, so why not carry what they like as a CCW ordinary citizen?


And why are ON-Duty and OFF-Duty models different.

For example NYPD get the choice of (off a cop website)

ON DUTY
S&W 5946
Glock 19
Sigarms P226 DAO

OFF DUTY
Glock 26
S&W 3914
Sigarms P239
S&W 3953 TSW
S&W 640 .38

Why not just have the same gun if they are going to have to carry both on duty and off. Seems like having 2 different ones is a unnecessary expense...

Can anyone shed some light?
Click to expand...

Dept's dictate what the officers carry as far as models, makes and calibers on and off duty.

From the NYPD list most of the weapons are pretty close in type and operation except the last one on the off duty list which is a revolver.

They are different for concealment purposes. You don't want a gun thats hard to conceal off duty. I carry a Full Size 1911A1 on duty, off duty it's hard to conceal so I carry a compact 1911A1, a S&W .38, or a Glock 27 "baby Glock". It's about being descreet.
 
I'm the exception.... I carry fullsize pistols 99% of the time simply because off duty I wear jeans and a t-shirt.

But most off-duty guns are smaller and lighter.

As for why we carry them. Same reason why the law abiding citizen does but also for one additional reason. Revenge. We arrest people and they are on the streets. Their friends are one the streets etc.....

I've stood in line while I was off duty at a Quiznos and I had someone tap me on the shoulder. The guy simply looked at me and said that I was the guy that arrested him.... lucky instead of attacking me he thanked me for being professional and polite. But 9 out of 10 times bad things happen.
 
I can't carry full size concealed because of my build. No matter what holster or where I carry the damn thing always prints. Even with a IWB or an SOB. Sucks.
 
We are only allowed one gun for carry, which happens to be a full size Colt Combat Target model.

Working in the shop its no problem as I carry in a belt holster on my strong side, being visible, cocked and locked its also a visible deterrent to would be thieves.

Off duty its another thing altogether. If the family goes out for a meal during our very hot summers for example, keeping the weapon concealed and instantly available is a nightmare. I've tried inside the pants, SOB and others, none of which really work.

I simply stick to my work holster and wear a jacket, not very comfortable during the height of summer, but I'd rather be uncomfortable then unarmed and vulnerable.

Recently a restaurant was hit in Cape Town by a dozen armed robbers who opened fire without warning or reason. The patrons hit the floor, one of which was wounded, one of the patrons armed with a little 38 Special snubbie returned fire hitting one of the attackers, who typically being cowards ran for their lives. Not ONE of the other patrons thanked him for saving their lives.
 
03USMC said:
I can't carry full size concealed because of my build. No matter what holster or where I carry the damn thing always prints. Even with a IWB or an SOB. Sucks.
Click to expand...

But I still don't get why you simply don't carry a smaller on-duty gun? Bigger and heavier is generally bad right? Why carry such a monster if you can carry compact model.

I'll take your example USMC03 you carry a 1911A3 Full sized on-duty and a 1911 Compact off-duty? I was checking out Kimber's website comparing for fun the Custom II and the Custom II compact and aside from a smaller frame, weight, a a 1-inch shorter barrel they are nearly identical.

So why not issue the compact (for example) to all officers off-and-on duty?

These might seem like idiot questions but I have never used a pistol, only rifles and shotguns.
 
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mmarsh said:
So why not issue the compact (for example) to all officers off-and-on duty?
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Because compact pistols have smaller surface area for gripping the firearm and also a smaller ammunition capacity. That plays a major part in the role of the weapon and it's accuracy. Barrel length is also a major issue in accuracy.
 
5.56X45mm said:
Because compact pistols have smaller surface area for gripping the firearm and also a smaller ammunition capacity. That plays a major part in the role of the weapon and it's accuracy. Barrel length is also a major issue in accuracy.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you on smaller ammunition capacity, a shorter barrel should not affect accuracy. While it might seem a shorter firearm is less accurate then its longer counterpart, the reason why a shorter firearm is less accurate is because of the shorter sight radius. One thing a shorter barrel does affect is reduce muzzle velocity.

For example:-
These figures are for the South African versions of the Galil

Lm4 18 inch barrel 3200 fps
Lm5 13 inch barrel 3000 fps
Lm6 11 inch barrel 2700 fps.

I achieved these figures using the same batch of 55 grain 223/5.56 military issue ammunition over a Chrony chronograph.

I did test fire a Colt Officers model, I wasnt impressed. Good for carry, but the recoil was spiteful. Its not a firearm I'd want to practice with too often.
 
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5.56

The ammo capacity is the same the grip looks a tiny bit smaller but not by much..

Using Kimber 1911 series as a example:

Compact Stainless II
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/compactprocarry/compact_stainless_II/

Custom II (Full Sized)
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/custom/custom_II/

Again, they look almost identical.

Upon Further investigation I do see a sizable difference in 9mm between the Glock 19 and 26, its just odd that the .45s are so close. I guess I should get to a range and try'em myself.
 
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mmarsh said:
5.56

The ammo capacity is the same the grip looks a tiny bit smaller but not by much..

Using Kimber 1911 series as a example:

Compact Stainless II
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/compactprocarry/compact_stainless_II/

Custom II (Full Sized)
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/custom/custom_II/

Again, they look almost identical.

Upon Further investigation I do see a sizable difference in 9mm between the Glock 19 and 26, its just odd that the .45s are so close. I guess I should get to a range and try'em myself.
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The 1911 is a different creature... for a very long time there was only two sizes. Government Model and Commander. Same frame, different barrel length.

But yeah, with the GLOCK 19 and the GLOCK 26.... big difference. I carry a GLOCK 19 on my hip sometimes but my GLOCK 26 is always on my ankle because it's that small.


BritinAfrica said:
While I agree with you on smaller ammunition capacity, a shorter barrel should not affect accuracy. While it might seem a shorter firearm is less accurate then its longer counterpart, the reason why a shorter firearm is less accurate is because of the shorter sight radius. One thing a shorter barrel does affect is reduce muzzle velocity.

For example:-
These figures are for the South African versions of the Galil

Lm4 18 inch barrel 3200 fps
Lm5 13 inch barrel 3000 fps
Lm6 11 inch barrel 2700 fps.

I achieved these figures using the same batch of 55 grain 223/5.56 military issue ammunition over a Chrony chronograph.

I did test fire a Colt Officers model, I wasnt impressed. Good for carry, but the recoil was spiteful. Its not a firearm I'd want to practice with too often.
Click to expand...

Rifle is one thing.... different method of carrying the firearm. You have a far more stable platform.

Sidearm.... not so much.
 
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5.56X45mm said:
Rifle is one thing.... different method of carrying the firearm. You have a far more stable platform.

Sidearm.... not so much.
Click to expand...

I quoted the rifle stats to demonstrate the difference that barrel lengths make, not the accuracy.

With a shorter barrel, its the shooter thats inaccurate not the firearm, due to sight radius.
 
mmarsh said:
But I still don't get why you simply don't carry a smaller on-duty gun? Bigger and heavier is generally bad right? Why carry such a monster if you can carry compact model.

I'll take your example USMC03 you carry a 1911A3 Full sized on-duty and a 1911 Compact off-duty? I was checking out Kimber's website comparing for fun the Custom II and the Custom II compact and aside from a smaller frame, weight, a a 1-inch shorter barrel they are nearly identical.

So why not issue the compact (for example) to all officers off-and-on duty?

These might seem like idiot questions but I have never used a pistol, only rifles and shotguns.
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My compact is a Kimber Ultra Carry, 3 inch barrel, 25 oz's and a much shorter grip frame.
 
One firearm I wouldnt ignore as a back up or even off duty carry is the Beretta model 70 in 22 Long Rifle. Its small, light and so easy to conceal and carry. Mine is extremely reliable and pretty accurate. Lovely little gun and of course, cheap to practice with.
 
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I used to use a Berretta Tomcat .32 ACP as an ankle gun. It was a nice piece, I wouldn't discount any of the small Berretta auto's. Although I'm restricted to .25 ACP and larger up to .45 ACP for back up and off duty. So the .22 LR would be a no go.
 
03USMC said:
I used to use a Berretta Tomcat .32 ACP as an ankle gun. It was a nice piece, I wouldn't discount any of the small Berretta auto's. Although I'm restricted to .25 ACP and larger up to .45 ACP for back up and off duty. So the .22 LR would be a no go.
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Back up for me is a pre-lock S&W Model 642 in .38 Special +p.
 
03USMC said:
I used to use a Berretta Tomcat .32 ACP as an ankle gun. It was a nice piece, I wouldn't discount any of the small Berretta auto's. Although I'm restricted to .25 ACP and larger up to .45 ACP for back up and off duty. So the .22 LR would be a no go.
Click to expand...


Thats a pity, because the little Beretta is a cracking little gun, as you know, the 22 LR is harder hitting then the 25.
 
Yes. But the powers that be feel I shouldn't carry, so I can't. Used to carry a North American Arms mini revolver in .22 LR in my shirt pocket as an "Oh chit" gun. Got caught. Don't carry it anymore.
 
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