Police Off-Duty Guns?

[BritinBritain]

Yes. But the powers that be feel I shouldn't carry, so I can't. Used to carry a North American Arms mini revolver in .22 LR in my shirt pocket as an "Oh chit" gun. Got caught. Don't carry it anymore.

A firearm dealer and his brother known to me was attacked at home by half a dozen thugs, the dealer brought out a NAA in 22 Magnum hitting one in the elbow, while the brother brought out a 45 nailing another scum bag putting him down.

Needless to say, the surviving crims did a runner.

 

[03USMC]

My NAA now resides on a shelf just inside my front door. Just in case. I've got no problem depending on it, especially at that range. IMHO it's a fine "get off me gun" while I fight my way to a larger one.

 

[BritinBritain]

My NAA now resides on a shelf just inside my front door. Just in case. I've got no problem depending on it, especially at that range. IMHO it's a fine "get off me gun" while I fight my way to a larger one.

I wish we had the same relaxed laws as you guys, South Africa would become a safer place overnight. If anyone left a firearm or even a round of ammunition on a shelf and not under your direct control, you'd be arrested, jailed and all of your guns confiscated by the police. Its insane, yet as predicted crime is going through the roof.

Purely as a matter of interest for the cops on the forum, the following was on the front page of our local newspaper regarding crime clear up rates in different area's for the month of January:-


Strand 69 Murder and violent crime 735 Total crime. 3.5% Successful prosecutions
Somerset West 51 Murder and violent crime 480 Total crime. 7% Successful prosecutions
Lwandle 26 Murder and violent crime 307 Total crime 0.94% Successful prosecutions
Gordons Bay 10 Murder and violent crime 220 Total crime 4% Successful prosecutions

Thats an average of 3.86% prosecution rate, well below the national average of 6%.

Yep, gun laws work

 

[mmarsh]

A 3.86% prosecution average for murder and violent crime, its not the guns that are the problem, its your legal system that sucks.

 

[BritinBritain]

A 3.86% prosecution average for murder and violent crime, its not the guns that are the problem, its your legal system that sucks.

The legal system sucks(they give criminals rights that the law-abiding don't have), the police are in the main useless and under funded, over 1/3rd are illiterate (I'm not kidding), yet the government are disarming the law-abiding. Guns in the right hands arent the problem, it the guns in the hands of criminals that are, guns that criminals get from corrupt cops and military. One cop was found to be renting out his issue firearm, and guess what? He's still a cop and not in jail where he belongs.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

I'd be up in arms over that one!

 

[mmarsh]

The legal system sucks(they give criminals rights that the law-abiding don't have), the police are in the main useless and under funded, over 1/3rd are illiterate (I'm not kidding), yet the government are disarming the law-abiding. Guns in the right hands arent the problem, it the guns in the hands of criminals that are, guns that criminals get from corrupt cops and military. One cop was found to be renting out his issue firearm, and guess what? He's still a cop and not in jail where he belongs.

Well therein lies your problem. It doesn't matter of South Africa has the more restrictive gun laws or the most liberal, until you address your lack of serious law-enforcement problem you are going to have problems with crime. Changing your gun laws one or the other wont change this.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

Well therein lies your problem. It doesn't matter of South Africa has the more restrictive gun laws or the most liberal, until you address your lack of serious law-enforcement problem you are going to have problems with crime. Changing your gun laws one or the other wont change this.

Seems to me that would be true no matter what. We (the USA) don't need to make stricter gun laws, either, IMHO.

 

[BritinBritain]

Well therein lies your problem. It doesn't matter of South Africa has the more restrictive gun laws or the most liberal, until you address your lack of serious law-enforcement problem you are going to have problems with crime. Changing your gun laws one or the other wont change this.

Not correct.

Before this new law was introduced in 2004 crime was falling as licences for self defence were fairly easy to get.

Since 2004 and restrictive laws were out in place forcing people to hand in firearms to the police (over 2000 of which have been sold by police to criminals) and licences are getting harder and harder to get, crime has increased. Thats fact.

The South African Police have stated publically that its not their job to provide protection to the population against criminals. Our protection is in our hands, not the police, not the government. Thats also fact.

Criminals are fully aware that the law-abiding are being disarmed, thereby making their task of murder, rape and robbery much easier.

I'd be up in arms over that one!

We are momma, we can kick and scream as much as we like, it falls on deaf ears.

In Parliament not long ago, the Minister for Safety and Security stated and I quote, "If you dont like the crime in South Africa, leave." unquote. Just about says it all.

Another thing many people people in the west don't realise, South Africa isnt a first world country with a first world mindset, its a typical third world African country with a third world mindset. Therefore, Western reasoning doesnt work in South Africa.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

We are momma, we can kick and scream as much as we like, it falls on deaf ears.

In Parliament not long ago, the Minister for Safety and Security stated and I quote, "If you dont like the crime in South Africa, leave." unquote. Just about says it all.

Another thing many people people in the west don't realise, South Africa isnt a first world country with a first world mindset, its a typical third world African country with a third world mindset. Therefore, Western reasoning doesnt work in South Africa.

What made you choose to live there?

 

[BritinBritain]

What made you choose to live there?

The thing is momma, its a stunning country, its really beautiful with amazing wildlife. With the end of apartheid everyone (including me) thought the country was going to get even better. Boy were we wrong.

Before 1994, companies from around the world were queueing up to invest in South Africa, today they are queueing up to leave.

I wish now I had applied to live in the US. 20/20 vision and all that.

 

[mmarsh]

Not correct.

Before this new law was introduced in 2004 crime was falling as licences for self defence were fairly easy to get.

Since 2004 and restrictive laws were out in place forcing people to hand in firearms to the police (over 2000 of which have been sold by police to criminals) and licences are getting harder and harder to get, crime has increased. Thats fact.

The South African Police have stated publically that its not their job to provide protection to the population against criminals. Our protection is in our hands, not the police, not the government. Thats also fact.

Criminals are fully aware that the law-abiding are being disarmed, thereby making their task of murder, rape and robbery much easier.

BritinAfrica

Do you know what the slogan of the Police is: "To Serve and Protect". That doesn't mean that everyone is entitled to a personal bodyguard but it is the PD job to protect society and uphold the law.

If the South African Police really stated in not their job to protect society from criminals than one has to wonder what exactly is their purpose? I mean why have them at all?

Where they like it or not, Protecting society *IS* their job, and it sounds like they are simply refusing to do it. Which goes back to what I said earlier: Your problem isn't guns, (thats a sideissue) its lack of serious law enforcement.

Makes me think twice about having the FIFA World Cup there next year.

 

[BritinBritain]

BritinAfrica

Do you know what the slogan of the Police is: "To Serve and Protect". That doesn't mean that everyone is entitled to a personal bodyguard but it is the PD job to protect society and uphold the law.

Ah there's the thing, the cops prefer easy targets rather then going after hard core criminals and reducing crime.

If the South African Police really stated in not their job to protect society from criminals than one has to wonder what exactly is their purpose? I mean why have them at all?

I've often asked myself that many times. The main problem has been Affirmative Action where people are put into top jobs who haven't the ability or intelligence to do the job. Many experienced policemen have been passed over for promotion so many times because of their skin colour, that they have left for Aussie, NZ and the USA to join their police forces. Aussie recently did a massive recruiting drive here, a LOT of coppers resigned and went to Aussie with better pay and conditions.

Where they like it or not, Protecting society *IS* their job, and it sounds like they are simply refusing to do it. Which goes back to what I said earlier: Your problem isn't guns, (thats a sideissue) its lack of serious law enforcement.

They dont seem to think it is their job. All too often people have phoned the emergency number and the phone has just rung and rung. All to often even when people have managed to get through, the cops can take over 2 hours to arrive on scene. Many of their excuses are:-
No vehicles available.
No petrol for the vehicles.
No policemen available.

Firearms might be a side issue, but its a very important (to us) issue in South Africa.

Makes me think twice about having the FIFA World Cup there next year.

I have been advising people to avoid South Africa like the plague next year. There simply isn't the infrastructure to deal with the fans and crime is well out of control.

Do yourself a favour and google MWEB news, and/or IOL news. Dont just take my word for it, take a look at the crime and the corruption in the police.