Police Brutality

[Duty Honor Country]

I looked on the FBI's website and they reported that there were 14 million arrests in 2004. If police brutality was an epidemic, there would be way more incidents on cnn and such.

Technology is allowing us to see more of these police brutalities but the truth is that vast vast VAST majority of police do the right thing.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

The difference between the civilians, police, firemen, military, etc. is that the civilians are not held to the same "standard" as the others. These select few have chosen to protect and serve the people. It is unfortunate that there are bad apples in each. BUT... as DHC mentioned, at least we have the technologies to catch those few that are abusing their power/position.

 

[03USMC]

03USMC

While anything can be argued both ways I simply say that it is an item that could be vary easily misused and it has been as many if not more times than not.

I thought the world went through world wars especially the second one to remove and avoid a governmental body that would use such practices. Let's face it the USA is a police/prison nation with 1 and 10 adults incarcerated. This does not bode well for a "free society" now does it.

Sure everyone says well obey the law and you have nothing to worry about, yet was it not the founding fathers of the USA that committed treason?

You maybe asking what this all has to do with police brutality, well when you have devices that can be used with out any repercussions and no sign of injury, albeit in the case of death, things can get out of hand. And topple that with a country that is obsessed with solving problems by making things illegal you are beginning to have a recipe for a very bad meal.

The thing I find most disturbing is, can be seen in countless videos, when a subject is being TASED and at the same time issued commands. When they are unable to cooperate with the commands it results in them thus TASED again. That is a vicious cycle and I can see it happening very easily when the individual using the TASER is rocking on adrenalin, whether they mean to or not.

When I came on the job I was issued a Model 19 S&W .375, 2 speed loaders, 2 sets of cuffs and a PR24 baton. That was it. Thats what I had to work with. So I could ethier go hands on, use the baton or use deadly force. The compliants of excessive force were just as bad from subjects that had force used against them.

I can remember after every shooting the hew and cry for a less lethal option, or if batons were used an option to the baton. So we got OC. Then OC was labeled a torture device and there were some deaths mostly from postional asphyixsia and a hew and cry to get rid of OC.

Now we have TASER. And yet again a hew and cry. appears to me that certain portions of society think bad guys should be lured in to cuffs with milk and cookies. Sad fact of the matter is sometimes force must be used. Sometimes pain compliance is the only way to safely take subjects into custody.

As far as the repeated commands. Thats how they are trained. You give repeated commands so that the subject understands you. The TASER fires for a 5 second cyle. Not really that long.

 

[Donkey]

When I came on the job I was issued a Model 19 S&W .375, 2 speed loaders, 2 sets of cuffs and a PR24 baton. That was it. Thats what I had to work with. So I could ethier go hands on, use the baton or use deadly force. The compliants of excessive force were just as bad from subjects that had force used against them.

I can remember after every shooting the hew and cry for a less lethal option, or if batons were used an option to the baton. So we got OC. Then OC was labeled a torture device and there were some deaths mostly from postional asphyixsia and a hew and cry to get rid of OC.

Now we have TASER. And yet again a hew and cry. appears to me that certain portions of society think bad guys should be lured in to cuffs with milk and cookies. Sad fact of the matter is sometimes force must be used. Sometimes pain compliance is the only way to safely take subjects into custody.

As far as the repeated commands. Thats how they are trained. You give repeated commands so that the subject understands you. The TASER fires for a 5 second cyle. Not really that long.

Define "bad guy"

 

[03USMC]

Okay how about actively agressive and non-compliant subject. Or armed non-compliant subject. Or non-compliant subject who is in violation of the established and published laws of that jurisdiction. Any of the above = bad guy.

 

[Donkey]

Okay how about actively agressive and non-compliant subject. Or armed non-compliant subject. Or non-compliant subject who is in violation of the established and published laws of that jurisdiction. Any of the above = bad guy.

I will agree with the first two...

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

Okay how about actively aggressive and non-compliant subject. Or armed non-compliant subject. Or non-compliant subject who is in violation of the established and published laws of that jurisdiction. Any of the above = bad guy.

1. actively aggressive and non-compliant subject = someone who is fighting & resisting arrest.

2. armed non-compliant subject = someone with a gun who won't listen

3. Or non-compliant subject who is in violation of the established and published laws of that jurisdiction = someone who won't listen and is breaking the law... possibly someone caught driving drunk, has pulled over, but is now wanting to fight the officer

I could see all of these examples being a bad guy...

 

[Donkey]

1. actively aggressive and non-compliant subject = someone who is fighting & resisting arrest.

2. armed non-compliant subject = someone with a gun who won't listen

3. Or non-compliant subject who is in violation of the established and published laws of that jurisdiction = someone who won't listen and is breaking the law... possibly someone caught driving drunk, has pulled over, but is now wanting to fight the officer

I could see all of these examples being a bad guy...

No the third one is open to interpretation and the officers memory of exact law. If as you say they wanted to fight the officer that would be number 1.

 

[AB_Shorts_Momma]

No the third one is open to interpretation and the officers memory of exact law. If as you say they wanted to fight the officer that would be number 1.

I guess that 03USMC should give the examples, as he is the only one who can explain what he was thinking when he wrote it... I was just putting my interpretation on it.

 

[03USMC]

No the third one is open to interpretation and the officers memory of exact law. If as you say they wanted to fight the officer that would be number 1.

Memory of exact law? No elements of law. Any offense that meets the elements of a published statute is considered to be a violation. Then you go to arrestable or non-arrestable offense. I only have to establish that the element of the statute has been violated and to what degree.

Once that has been established it's open to no ones interpretation but the courts.

Then you come into to what type of non-compliance, verbal, non verbal, aggressive, passive etc. And that dicates what level of force I'm justified in using to effect the arrest.

 

[Donkey]

Memory of exact law? No elements of law. Any offense that meets the elements of a published statute is considered to be a violation. Then you go to arrestable or non-arrestable offense. I only have to establish that the element of the statute has been violated and to what degree.

Once that has been established it's open to no ones interpretation but the courts.

Then you come into to what type of non-compliance, verbal, non verbal, aggressive, passive etc. And that dicates what level of force I'm justified in using to effect the arrest.

You're first example in no way justifies the use of a TASER correct?

Memory is always a factor....

 

[03USMC]

You're first example in no way justifies the use of a TASER correct?

Memory is always a factor....

What scenerio? Verbal noncompliance? No not unless the subject escalates or can be by his/her actions percieved and articulated as a threat.

It doesn't break down in neat and tidy lines. If the subject says "No. No.I don't want to be arrested." and begins bawling when you tell them to turn around to be cuffed thats verbal non-compliance but it's passive, it can generally be handled by soft hand restraint.

On the other hand if the subject sqaures of and says "I ain't goin to jail MF'er." it's still verbal buts it's aggressive. It may call for more force to effect arrest.

Both situations can turn on a dime. The passive may become aggressive or the aggressive may become passive. The Cop on the scene has to make that determination in a few seconds. He doesn't have the 2 months it takes an attorney to come up with a "defense".

As far as memory, what exactly do you mean? It's pretty simple to deduce if a laws been broken. I don't have to recite word for word from the criminal code.