poland vs. ukraine

B

benaakatz

Active member
i just learned in history class about the brutal wars between these two countries in the past. the professor said that although its modern times a lot of these countries still have beef with each other about land, borders, just general ethnic tension etc...

if these two countries were to go to war now, who do you think would come out the victor?

from the looks of it both have pretty good army/air force/navys for their sizes
 
If I recall, there's something in the rules against country vs. country threads... I'd have to check, which I don't have time to do right now.
 
The Other Guy said:
If I recall, there's something in the rules against country vs. country threads... I'd have to check, which I don't have time to do right now.
Click to expand...

That is correct..
99.9% of all threads like that has gone real bad in the past, so we don't allow them anymore..

But you are allowed to discuss the military capabilities of countries, as long as you don't turn it into a x vs. y flamewar, and of course keeps OPSEC in mind!
 
hey

benaakatz said:
i just learned in history class about the brutal wars between these two countries in the past. the professor said that although its modern times a lot of these countries still have beef with each other about land, borders, just general ethnic tension etc...

if these two countries were to go to war now, who do you think would come out the victor?

from the looks of it both have pretty good army/air force/navys for their sizes
Click to expand...
wow that different
 
Right now I'd say it's a better probability that they would ally with each other. Both are leery of the Russians.
 
Judging by what I read in the military technology,

Poland has half active manpower than Ukraine, 77000 compared to 150000.
Poland has a small force of 128 Leopard 2 MBT
Ukraine has 4800 with the main force concisting of T64 but also a 1000 T72 and T84s
Same with AIVs Ukraine has far more AiVs than Poland.
The airforces arent a match as well, Ukraine has a lot more Mig 29 compared to Polands small force of MIG 29 and F16 fighters.

I think it would end in a battle of who has the longest breath, in the end that would be Ukraine I think.
Could be a nice tacops battle for a cpx though.....
 
Poland = EU and though it has a smaller military it is professional and well equipped.
Ukraine is on its own therefore they lose. I would also question the quality of Ukraine's equipment and personal as a problem with all large militaryies in noty terribly wealthy countries (especially in ex soviet satellites states) is that they will have a lot of equipment left over from the cold war which they will keep on their books but whether they work or not is another question...
 
In my opinion Poland.
Why?
Compare army and air force.

Poland - smaller army but in middle of modernisation process from old Warsaw pact era equipment to modern army.
Ukraine - large army with lack of funds, all equipment from soviet era. We don't know if it's even running.

Let's compare some basics aspects:
Military Budget:
Poland 9 150 000 000 $
Ukraine 3 863 000 000 $
Poland has smaller army but 3 times larger budget.

Tanks
Poland: 128 Leopard 2A4 ~250 PT91 Twardy (Polish MBT) and ~400 T-72 in reserve.
Ukraine: 2200 obsolete T-64, 1300 T-72 and 271 T-80 UD in Reserve.
In numbers Ukraine wins but.. in technology... I cannot imagine T-64 fighting during a night or trying to survive Spike missile... Question is if Ukrainian T-72 and T-80 are operational or totally forgotten

APC IFV
Poland: ~1000 Rosomak - modern APC/IFV. Tested in Iraq and Afghanistan - proved to be very good and very resistant to RPG.
~ 1000 BWP1 - obsolete IFV
Ukraine: only obsolote IFV/APC: ~1000 BMP1 ~1000 BMP2 ~2000 MT-LB ~400 BTR80 (btw why they need ~5k APC/IFV? they don't have money to keep them all running).
Again in numbers Ukraine wins but Rosomak vs any of the Ukrainian APC/IFV... you can foreseen result

Artillery:
Poland: A lot of old artillery, but also some new pieces are entering polish army right now ( Krab, Langusta, Rak etc). Within next few years all obsolete artillery will be replaced by modern one.
Ukraine: A lot of old Artillery.
For now Ukraine wins - in next few years this will change.

Anti- Tank equipment:
Poland: ~3000 Modern Anti Tank rockets - Spike, ~300 obsolete soviet era
Ukraine: Mostly obsolete AT missiles.
There is nothing to compare. Poland wins.

AA
Poland: Obsolete equipment with some very good pieces:
~2000 GROM rocket - proved in South- Ossetia War: 12 rockets were fired out of which 9 hit their targets.
Poprad - AA system based on Grom missiles
Ukraine: obsolete soviet era equipment. Only Kolchuga sensor system is good.

Helis:
Poland: Obsolete Mi-24,W-3, Mi-2. some of them upgraded with additional Survivability Equipment.
Ukraine: Obsolete Mi-24, Mi-26, Mi-8,Mi-9
Both sides have only few dozens of combat helicopters. Irrelevant for battlefield.

Air Force:
Poland: 48 F-16 Block D 52+. Newest version of F-16.
32 Mig-29 with some minor upgrades.
32 Obsolete Su-22
Ukraine: 36 Su-27 (only 16 are operational)
80 Mig-29
120 Su-24 (only 36 in service).

Again in numbers Ukraine wins but in quality Poland wins. Question is how many Ukrainian aircrafts are really operational.

There is no point to compare Navy as these countries have access to different seas.

Conclusion:
Poland - smaller army, quite modern with some obsolete equipment, most of which is 100% combat ready.
Ukraine - very large numbers but obsolete. Moreover unknown status of most of the equipment.
In my opinion Poland vs Ukraine 1:0 but with heavy losses on both sides.
Anyway Poland is NATO and EU member and in case of war air supremacy of Nato countries is out of any question. With open skies every country is automatic loser.
 
Poland win in defence even if Ukraine have bigger size of first personnal. But bigger size is not best always in wartime. UK wins over Nazi in 1940's whit 300,000 troops and Nazi have more than one million man when UK attack's. And UK won. Is old story now.
 
I belief that Poland can win at home. 778 panzer is good enough for a victory against a big rivaly in army.

EDIT.

Poland have smaller reserve than Ukraine with 1 x 100. But Ukraine only have safe 1 million reserve against a possible 5 million from russian reserve in a possible attack against Ukraine. That one million strong reserve is for the russian have 20 million in reserve force the Ukraine plan after that one million strong reserve.

Poland have 10000 in reserve.
 
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Army0413 said:
EDIT.

Poland have smaller reserve than Ukraine with 1 x 100. But Ukraine only have safe 1 million reserve against a possible 5 million from russian reserve in a possible attack against Ukraine. That one million strong reserve is for the russian have 20 million in reserve force the Ukraine plan after that one million strong reserve.

Poland have 10000 in reserve.
Click to expand...

Not correct. Current reserve is about 500 000. Moreover barely few years ago Poland has cancelled conscription so most of the man is after military service or training.
10 000 is a reserve army size. They are not like usual reserves - they are in army at least 1 month per year for training.
 
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