Pilot said 'this is fun' before fatal Blackwater crash - Page 3




 
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October 11th, 2007  
A Can of Man
 
 
One of the great problems currently is that the government and all are just learning how to deal with such a problem. They're gonna make mistakes. And there will be those who will take full advantage of it.
But I also believe there are those out there both in and out of government who want to make a lot of money and push for wrong decisions that will fill their pockets. The war in Iraq may cost the government tons of money but that's not going to be the concern of the crooks that have too much money for their own good.
Not saying they just created the war itself, but saying they made the best in terms of personal profit out of a difficult and delicate situation.
We're talking about people who are willing to destroy entire economies just so that they can earn money that they don't even need. George Soros and the Asian Economic Crisis is a good example. Thanks to that jack ass, my wife had to grow up on one meal a day. This one, Hitler should have gassed to death. Too bad he survived.
We gotta remember, there are those with lots of wealth and power who don't give two squirts a piss about America and its people, much less people abroad.
Lobbyists seem great at paralyzing the military, then delegating these roles (which are in most cases, glorified convoy escort missions) to some damn civilian company. This sets a dangerous precedent for future conflicts.
It may be hard for some people to realize, but there are plenty of people who actually have the capacity to not care about other people... who think of them as only pieces in some kind of game.
Let the military do its job. Save some people, do the mission and let's come home.
But for others, there is money to be made.
I think I'm with Gator on this one. Blackwater should be destroyed for what they've done.
October 11th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Blackwater should be destroyed for what they've done.
A trifle harsh perhaps, but there is no denying that it has every chance of coming back to bite us on the bum. Once private companies start making big bux out of fighting our wars, they will find it is against their interest to defeat the enemy, and if they do succeed, what is going to happen to all of these soldiers of fortune? Surely they are not just going to go home to Mum and the 2.4 kids and take up stamp collecting. I won't even bother going on about the moral issues, as I feel that it has been worked over enough in other threads.

It's gunna be a headache in the future, if it hasn't started already.
October 11th, 2007  
A Can of Man
 
 
Yes this is what I mean.
The whole idea of defense contractors creating conflicts to earn money in itself holds some weight but this is something where the private company does the shooting.
Yes, once the shooting is over, then there will be problems with the company. This is when they will eventually answer to anyone willing to pay the price and pretty much do anything they can to stay in business. You will have American mercenaries in some remote corner of Africa conducting acts which are nothing but acts of terror. And they may be doing it "legally."
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October 11th, 2007  
The Other Guy
 
 
famous last words there.
October 12th, 2007  
Kiwi
 
Excatly Bulldog people profit from war, and this time its not the government.

Like it or not, conflict is a great economically. It creates jobs but in the government and non government sector.

Discrease economic activity of a country generally sparks some war or other.

PSC are the future of warfare. One the government does not have the training cost per unit of soilder, what here is cost average $27,000 per grunt through Pooka, let alone around $60,000+ per officer basic training.

On going cost of say one WO2 at $120,000 per year in wages alone without on going cost of training lodging etc. Say guess around $200,000 per WO2. And you have may be 2,000 of the fellas.

thats just one group of officers, of course wages on a scale for the rest.

you have a wooping big defence bill just for man power alone. ( that includes woman power too, I was not being sexist)

You have that cost every year.

Then some fellas come along (PSC) saying for 5 million we can supply the required man power, one off payment.

Of course a civvy minded person is looking soley at the output of the cash.

The government is soley penny wise pound foolish.

But its the sigh of the times thats what rules the world now the almightly dollar.

The social trend of the US needs to change, this rush of aggression after 9/11 and then Iraq, now the boring bits of the clean up seems to have been lost on the American people.

If the wham bam no thank you ma'am attitude was back with the long term need for commitent, would decrease the need of PSC, because then if its ecomonic question, increasing the Defence coffers from 3% to maybe 3.5%, with support of the tax payers would rid the whole question of money because you would not need to penny pinch.
October 12th, 2007  
A Can of Man
 
 
As with Blackwater I really mean all PMCs.
All private security companies should be given strict rules of engagement and strict limitations on what roles they can fill. Journalist and NGO personnel protection top the list I think.
October 12th, 2007  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi
Excatly Bulldog people profit from war, and this time its not the government.

Like it or not, conflict is a great economically. It creates jobs but in the government and non government sector.

Discrease economic activity of a country generally sparks some war or other.

PSC are the future of warfare. One the government does not have the training cost per unit of soilder, what here is cost average $27,000 per grunt through Pooka, let alone around $60,000+ per officer basic training.

On going cost of say one WO2 at $120,000 per year in wages alone without on going cost of training lodging etc. Say guess around $200,000 per WO2. And you have may be 2,000 of the fellas.

thats just one group of officers, of course wages on a scale for the rest.

you have a wooping big defence bill just for man power alone. ( that includes woman power too, I was not being sexist)

You have that cost every year.

Then some fellas come along (PSC) saying for 5 million we can supply the required man power, one off payment.

Of course a civvy minded person is looking soley at the output of the cash.

The government is soley penny wise pound foolish.

But its the sigh of the times thats what rules the world now the almightly dollar.

The social trend of the US needs to change, this rush of aggression after 9/11 and then Iraq, now the boring bits of the clean up seems to have been lost on the American people.

If the wham bam no thank you ma'am attitude was back with the long term need for commitent, would decrease the need of PSC, because then if its ecomonic question, increasing the Defence coffers from 3% to maybe 3.5%, with support of the tax payers would rid the whole question of money because you would not need to penny pinch.

You are aware that these PMC's are not filling actual manuver element roles in Iraq and 'Stan right? That they are not actually goning out like an Infantry element or Spec Op's element right? You are aware that these guys are performing protection and security services for various private companies, Goverment agencies and NGO's right?

And I don't know but a Warrent Officer 2 here doesn't rake in 120,000.00 per year. The Contractors make at least that for their 1 yr pumps with their 3 vacations.
October 12th, 2007  
A Can of Man
 
 
Like I said, glorified convoy escort.
But they need stricter ROEs and they must be subject to either local or US laws.
October 12th, 2007  
Kiwi
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
You are aware that these PMC's are not filling actual manuver element roles in Iraq and 'Stan right? That they are not actually goning out like an Infantry element or Spec Op's element right? You are aware that these guys are performing protection and security services for various private companies, Goverment agencies and NGO's right?

And I don't know but a Warrent Officer 2 here doesn't rake in 120,000.00 per year. The Contractors make at least that for their 1 yr pumps with their 3 vacations.
Yes I am aware of that at this stage for the US, but I did say in the future.
That was Regarding the PMC's.

Its not much of a leap, you outsource basic operational duties, more involoved and skilled areas are going to to next. The same logic applied to basic areas will be applied to more skill set needs.

You know as well as I the military has increased its civvy contracts that now involve areas that used to be soley the mil domain.

That 120,000 takes in all wage costs, sick, hoildays, bonus, insurances the mil has to pay, increased pay due to deployments, long service, admin processing etc. Not take home in your hand, but actually cost of the WO2 to the mil.

Like a Sgt two years ago got 1500 (gross-thats before tax)a week base pay. My figures are Australian Military.

I also know our job awards are different to yours. Its a little hard to compare.

Like we have 4 weeks hoilday 12 days sick as standard full time entitlement. We don't do medical benefits, because we do have a health system. Average Civvy, mil of course gets more.

As for our PMC's the average fella rejected from basic is offered $800 per week in hand plus hazard pay.

Our military recieve bonus payments too if going into a active war zone.

I also think that you need to be aware just because the US doesn't use the PMC's as soldiers, doesn't mean the other countries involved are following suit.
 


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