Perimeter defences plan for a military base for the GWOT

Christmas is early this year!

Again inserting answers. Please note, though, that I have the feeling that we are about to be hijacking the thread, so it might be better to open a new thread on TascOps management.

Rattler
Thanks again Rattler.

No worries about the thread - it is all on topic, no danger of a hijack here. I am the OP and I think TacOps simulations of a likely attack against my towers defence must be on topic if that is what I need to do to prove my defence plan works.

Oh, look what a google search turned up!

This looks just what I need! - TacOps HQ - Map Room

Maps, map-making tools. :santa:

It says for TacOps v3 but I suppose the maps will work for my TacOps4 program?
 
OK, I downloaded the TacOps Map Tool v.102 for the PC from the TacOps HQ Map Room.

For the purpose of use with the map tool, the user first creates a .bmp file of the map background and I just want a simple flat surface so I created a simple one-colour image and the biggest size the map tool will accept is 3100 x 3100 so that's the size I made.

A bmp file 3100 x 3100 is 28,155 KB in size which is too big to attach to this post but anyone following along can make their own using an image editor easily enough.

I have attached the map data file for my 3100x3100 bmp here - it's in the zip file "map310c.zip"

The data file inside that is "map310c.dat" and is all of 188 bytes.
The image file needs to be called "map310c.bmp" to match with the data file.

The map tool says there are strict naming conventions for the map files
image file - "map" + 3-digits + "c.bmp"
data file - "map" + 3-digits + "c.dat"

For my 3 digits I picked "310" to represent "3100 x 3100" pixels.

So I guess I am ready to build my first tower!
 

Attachments

  • map310c.zip
    348 bytes · Views: 0
Yes, maps created with it will work with v4.

Rattler

Thanks again Rattler.

No worries about the thread - it is all on topic, no danger of a hijack here. I am the OP and I think TacOps simulations of a likely attack against my towers defence must be on topic if that is what I need to do to prove my defence plan works.

Oh, look what a google search turned up!

This looks just what I need! - TacOps HQ - Map Room

Maps, map-making tools. :santa:

It says for TacOps v3 but I suppose the maps will work for my TacOps4 program?
 
... For my 3 digits I picked "310"...

I am not sure, but if memory dont fail 310 is in use already. At TO HQ there should be a low fidelity list (long time no update) of number ranges available for new maps.

Also, it is recommended to mail any new map numbers used to TO HQ so the list can be updated.

Rattler
 
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so I created a simple one-colour image and the biggest size the map tool will accept is 3100 x 3100 so that's the size I made.

So I guess I am ready to build my first tower!
I realised that I would need to draw a detailed map to the TacOps scale so that I could see where to place the items when creating the data file. I took the opportunity to make a few small changes to the design.

I am not sure, but if memory dont fail 310 is in use already. At TO HQ there should be a low fidelity list (long time no update) of number ranges available for new maps.

Also, it is recommended to mail any new map numbers used to TO HQ so the list can be updated.

Rattler

I joined the TacOps email list and send them an email with a copy of my map (in .jpg form) which they can convert to .bmp easily enough by opening the .jpg with an image editing program then saving it as .bmp

I asked for "310" but asked them to pick another number for me if that is taken.

I have also selected a portion of the whole image to use as a legend, as shown here.

map310legend800.jpg


Image 1588 x 802 pixels - 16km x 8km (346 KB)

The full-size map

Image 3100x3100 pixels - 31km x 31km map (1062 KB)

The differences in this revision are

  • Towers now have mortars
  • The infantry barrier is now from 100m to 2000m from the towers
  • The vehicle barrier is now from 2000m to 3000m from the towers

Towers tunnel - Although not drawn in, I now propose an tunnel circle which connects the towers together underground via internal staircases / lifts from the tunnel to the gun turret.

A towers tunnel would allow each 3 man-team to either deploy as all three men in one tower or one man in each of three neighbouring towers; the team could change its deployment without being observed by the enemy.
 
You control nothing by hiding behind a big, cumbersome, inefficient base like that. The enemy simply goes around you and continues on, business as usual. What do you accomplish by having these giant bases? How are you defeating the ideology? How are you legitimizing the ANA ANP to the average everyday Afghan? There's no such thing as an impenetrable fortress, human ingenuity will defeat these stationary beheamouths every single time. Active defense is always prefered over a passive one. And that's exactly what this is, a passive defense. You impose your will nowhere on the insurgency. You connect with the locals in no way. You tie down numerous soldiers that could be used actively hunting down the bad guys or helping to train the local Afghans. The list is endless.

Sun Tzu said it best "he who defends everywhere, defends nowhere"
 
That would help a lot because TacOps is a new program to me and the best way to learn a new program is to learn from somebody who has done it all already.

The best way to learn anything is with and from people who have done it before which I would suggest includes the people you are "designing" these bases for, surely your best option here is not to continue designing larger and larger monoliths from your imagination but rather to ask what it is that the people you are apparently building these things for need?

Just a thought but in the 5 pages of this thread to date not once have you asked what is actually needed.
 
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If not proved, then not disproved either

As for Peters reply, I used the mortars to blast a track throught your minefields, and (a) bomb truck(s) to blast through the barriers then, made it into strike range in the numbers described.

Although I've never fired a mortar or cleared a minefield in my life I'd be astonished if the method described was a quick and easy method to clear a minefield.

I just don't buy the idea that attackers will have time to use mortar teams to carpet bomb the mines and truck-bomb the obstacles to clear a path through the vehicle and infantry barriers nearly 3000 metres / yards long in the 15 or 20 minutes it is going to take before the other 2/3rds of the defence force has reacted.

The Reaction Force can deploy attack helicopters and long range artillery to eliminate any enemy mortar teams which are attacking the minefields. Even if those enemy mortars trying to clear the minefields are just out of range of the tower mortars they won't be out of range of the reaction force when it springs into action.

As I said, for the third scenario the mortars were used for supressive fires,

The new mortars in the towers I have added to my design will be at least as well protected as an APC mortar carrier and so if anyone is getting suppressed by mortars it will be those who have set up on the ground or on the back of a Toyota pickup to try to fire mortars at the towers.

Etc., etc., I wont go on discussing this with somebody who obviously does not have a real clue but a firm idea, as I said: Run your scenarios through TO and see where you get.

Rattler

Well I have now had a go with TacOps demo version using the custom scenario with my map.

I stared off with a mortar duel to see who would win between

  • my armoured mortars in the tower (simulated with entrenched CA Mortar Carrier 81mm Bison, because it was the only mortar carrier APC that was available in the demo version - in reality I would use 120 mm or bigger mortars because weight is no problem in a fort and the greater range of the bigger mortars enable more towers to join the defence to help to eliminate an enemy position which has grouped many mortar teams to concentrate an attack on only one or a few towers),
  • and the enemy mortars attacking the towers

but before we had a winner I got this error message -

"This mode of play with this scenario
has a turn limit in the demo version.
There is no turn limit in the full version.
The demo version will now quit."
:sorry:

which is a bit disappointing :( but then TacOps demo version was for free so I can't complain.

But by the same token Rattler you should not complain that I am not prepared, keen and enable to use a free military simulator to prove my point if one was available for free.

I did try but the turn limit in the TacOps demo version stopped me getting very far with it, even though I was making excellent progress up until that point.

So I am not going to be able to prove my points in full using TacOps demo version after all but I remain convinced that with a bit of fine-tuning of the plan, like I just did - adding mortars and a towers circle tunnel - this defence plan will do very well against any terrorist or insurgent group like the Taliban and would even give a regular army pause for thought too.

Thanks again Rattler - you have been very helpful. :salute2:
 
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You control nothing by hiding behind a big, cumbersome, inefficient base like that.
The base would be controlled, the Central Base and it's contents would be secure.

So that would contrast with the likes of Bagram and Bastion air bases where recent enemy attacks have killed our people and destroyed NATO aircraft at great expense. The existing perimeter defences of those bases were "controlling nothing" and have been proven to be "inefficient".

Two out of three little piggies who think building solid defences is too cumbersome regret their shoddy workmanship later when the big bad wolf blows their house down.

The enemy simply goes around you and continues on, business as usual.
Not quite. One piece of enemy business-as-usual can come to an end. I mean the enemy's protection racket business of demanding bribes to leave poorly defended bases alone. That business at least can stop.

What do you accomplish by having these giant bases?
The accomplishment of my perimeter base design is base security but that is not achieved because the base is "giant". A beached whale is a giant beast but it is not secure.

We need to sack the base designers who are offering us "giant" or any other size of base and hire Peter Dow who is offering us secure.

How are you defeating the ideology?
A secure base could contain a satellite up-link to broadcast our ideas via satellite TV or it could contain jamming equipment to jam an enemy satellite.

How are you legitimizing the ANA ANP to the average everyday Afghan?
Every cent / penny spent on such a base is one cent / penny not available to be paid to Karzai to make profits for himself and his corrupt cronies by recruiting bad individuals to the ANA and ANP.

Afghans can only view an Afghan military or police force as legitimate if they pay for it themselves and can hold it accountable. Therefore we need to stop giving Karzai any more money for a supposedly "national Afghan" force but in reality ends up as Karzai's own private army and police force. We don't hold Karzai accountable and the Afghans can't because they don't control the purse strings.

You are asking about the whole war on terror strategy in Afghanistan so I suggest that you read my topic here

How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)

In particular, in post #11, I address the issue of the ANA - Afghan forces. Green-on-blue attacks. The solution

Split up the Afghan green force into two distinct forces -
  • a national Afghan army which Afghans pay for and is commanded by the Afghan president and whichever general he/she wants to appoint. (“dark green”)

  • a NATO-ISAF auxiliary force of Afghans and others, funded by the US and other NATO countries and international donors. This would be commanded by our generals. (“light green”)

There's no such thing as an impenetrable fortress, human ingenuity will defeat these stationary beheamouths every single time.
Well if we employ an ingenious defence then it makes it that much harder for the enemy. If we employ a stupid defence, a house of straw, then the enemy doesn't have to be all that smart to defeat it.

Active defense is always prefered over a passive one.
Agreed.

And that's exactly what this is, a passive defense.
No it isn't. In terms of base defence, 2/3rds of the defence force is held in reserve "off duty" and is available to react to any attack.

In terms of a stronger offence against the Taliban and their state sponsors such as Pakistan, then see my topic How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)

You impose your will nowhere on the insurgency.
No, my complete strategy, as outlined in my other topic defeats the insurgency. This topic is purely about base defence and it imposes our will to have a secure base better than the existing bases defences where the enemy has attacked, killed our people, damaged our aircraft, and challenged our will.

You connect with the locals in no way.
The base could be used as a broadcasting centre.

You tie down numerous soldiers that could be used actively hunting down the bad guys or helping to train the local Afghans.
It's one infantry battalion of about 800 soldiers supplemented with some additional units, such as attack helicopters and artillery.

The base could be used as a training base and it could be used as a base from which to hunt the enemy. Again, this plan describes the perimeter defences. This topic does not claim to present all the answers - for all the answers to Afghanistan then please see my other topic

How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)

The list is endless.
Sure, you can think of a million things this plan doesn't do. It doesn't cure cancer, for one. But it does defend a military base and that's all this plan is intended to do.

Sun Tzu said it best "he who defends everywhere, defends nowhere"
He who cannot defend his own home base, defends nowhere.

This topic presents a plan to defend a base, it is not a plan to defend everywhere.
 
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Sigh...I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about. Excuse me oh brilliant one, how dare I question what you propose that has zero applicability in reality. I mean, one logically knows that having zero experience in these matters absolutely makes one a credible authority on what will work and what won't. And those with over a decade of experience or more, and numerous combat tours can't simply know at all what they are talking about.
 
The best way to learn anything is with and from people who have done it before which I would suggest includes the people you are "designing" these bases for, surely your best option here is not to continue designing larger and larger monoliths from your imagination but rather to ask what it is that the people you are apparently building these things for need?
People need security. They need not to be killed. I hope we all already know that without having to ask - "hey, do you need security, or are you OK with getting killed?"

When our bases got attacked and people killed, equipment wrecked, I did ask - why don't our bases have proper, competently-designed perimeter defences which defeat the attackers?

I understood the need for secure perimeter defences and I have proposed a solution to that need.

Just a thought but in the 5 pages of this thread to date not once have you asked what is actually needed.
At the very beginning of the topic, I posted two stories of attacks against our bases in Afghanistan. It should be obvious that we need to have better defences than we had.

I am using my brain to analyse all the factors of the problem and to synthesise a solution.

If instead I had just asked people - "hey you do the thinking, I have got no idea, will you come up with a plan for better defences?" that would not be of much use.

I give credit to others where credit is due - if they know more about something than I. Rattler knew more about TacOps and I gave him credit and thanks for passing on his knowledge.

Now, if anyone here thinks they have a better plan for the perimeter defences for a military base than mine then please go ahead and post your plan, then we can compare different plans and see which is best.
 
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So are you expecting a war without casualties? Instead of designing huge, complicated, intricate defenses...most of what you want accomplished can be done with just plain old good soldiering. It's a helluva lot cheaper, A LOT less complicated, and much more flexible.

Understand, any type of tactic, technique, procedure, etc is constantly being modified over time. Being flexible and adaptable is essential for success because the enemy has a say. They modify their tactics too, and over time will figure out a way to defeat or marginalize any one of the tactics we come up with. There is a constant match between offense and defense in warfare where both sides tactics evolve over time to beat the other side. There's no such thing as one single answer.

The plan you came up with may halt human assaults on the base, but then it gives the enemy an advantage because the very threat of an attack ties up numerous resources and all they have to do is lob a few rockets or mortars at the base every couple of days to keep us in our turtle shell. You're counter fire capability will be useless because all the insurgents have to do is set rockets onto easily made timers. They can simply drop a rail out of a car with a preset timer on it and then drive off. It takes less than a minute, and when the timer goes off the rocket launches and hits the base. All that is left is a rail system with noone left to shoot back at. They can do this indefinitely, tieing up numerous resources in the process.

Constant patrolling, small dedicated joint coalition and ANA teams living within Afghan villages, and terrain denial through Patrol base operations is the key to denying the enemy access to the people. This is counter insurgency, the people are the battlefield, not the terrain. The fight is for the people...you can't keep the enemy away unless you have a 24 hour presence in the areas they operate out of and a 24 hour presence where the people live. We tried the whole operate out of big bases concept in Iraq and it failed. We didn't get any head way until we moved into the cities and partnered with the Iraqi's. Until we empowered the Iraqi's with their own security and they saw that we were reliable allies did we see success. Until we engaged the real power, which was the sheiks and the tribal elders and not the talking heads within their government, did we see success. It was then and only then that the insurgency was brought under control.

We shouldn't hide behind big walls, weapons, and minefields. We need to get out there and mingle with the locals. Yes, it's dangerous. But being a soldier is dangerous and it's something a soldier accepts when they sign the dotted line. Defeat the ideology, deny the enemy access, and take away their sanctuary, and empower the population and you win. Don't do this and you may not lose many soldiers in the short term, but in the long run you will be defeated and the growing body count, bank account, and diminished political will will breed disaster.
 
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Peter Dow; I would suggest you to use your energy to something else, instead of putting up defense plans for the armed forces. What you can focus on should be the strategical/political goal with the war and leave the military planning to those who are trained to do so. To achieve it is to create a political framework. Ask yourself following questions;

What do we want to achieve with this war?

How do we achieve our strategical/political goal?

What military and civilian resources are needed to reach the goal?

When we know these things we can create a political framework, which allows the military and the civilian leaders to do what they find necessary.
Let the military do what they do best and let others do what they do best and leave something which remind me of the Teutonic knights.
 
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So are you expecting a war without casualties?
I'd expect casualties on our side to be kept to a minimum, on the enemy's side to a maximum.

Instead of designing huge, complicated, intricate defenses...
The defences are not huge; the circumference or length of the perimeter circle for such bases starts at about 50 miles long.

What's really huge is the Afghanistan / Pakistan border which is about 1,640 miles long.

most of what you want accomplished can be done with just plain old good soldiering. It's a helluva lot cheaper, A LOT less complicated, and much more flexible.

What I want is secure bases and safe troops in well designed bases.

Instead our stupid generals thought it might sound like "just plain old good soldiering" to set up a number of isolated forward operating bases along that huge AfPak border. That's a "helluva lot" costlier, a LOT more complicated, completely inflexible and strategically pointless.

Understand,
Buddy, with all due respect, I am the scientist here. Understanding is not my problem.

any type of tactic, technique, procedure, etc is constantly being modified over time. Being flexible and adaptable is essential for success because the enemy has a say. They modify their tactics too, and over time will figure out a way to defeat or marginalize any one of the tactics we come up with. There is a constant match between offense and defense in warfare where both sides tactics evolve over time to beat the other side. There's no such thing as one single answer.
I never said there was one single answer. In this topic, I have listened to criticisms and improved my own plan. I started with one answer, and have now produced an improved answer.

The plan you came up with may halt human assaults on the base,
Yes.

but then it gives the enemy an advantage because the very threat of an attack ties up numerous resources
You keep saying "numerous". It's as much as is needed, based around an infantry battalion of about 800.

and all they have to do is lob a few rockets or mortars at the base every couple of days to keep us in our turtle shell. You're counter fire capability will be useless because all the insurgents have to do is set rockets onto easily made timers. They can simply drop a rail out of a car with a preset timer on it and then drive off. It takes less than a minute, and when the timer goes off the rocket launches and hits the base. All that is left is a rail system with noone left to shoot back at. They can do this indefinitely, tieing up numerous resources in the process.
They won't hit anything that way.

Constant patrolling, small dedicated joint coalition and ANA teams living within Afghan villages, and terrain denial through Patrol base operations is the key to denying the enemy access to the people. This is counter insurgency, the people are the battlefield, not the terrain. The fight is for the people...you can't keep the enemy away unless you have a 24 hour presence in the areas they operate out of and a 24 hour presence where the people live.
Our forces are not the Afghan police and our generals are not running for Afghan political office, nor are we there to prop up Karzai's political authority. We should not try to take on inappropriate roles.

The one place we really need a permanent presence outside our bases is to secure and to control any ground supply routes that must be used to supply our bases; perhaps some bases are best supplied by air. We only need a handful of regional bases at most.

We tried the whole operate out of big bases concept in Iraq and it failed.
What failed was supplying and patrolling along insecure roads, getting our soldiers killed by road-side bombs.

The other failure was neglecting to confront other states in the region who were backing their own proxy terrorist groups operating inside Iraq.

In other words, the exact same failures as now in Afghanistan.

We didn't get any head way until we moved into the cities and partnered with the Iraqi's. Until we empowered the Iraqi's with their own security and they saw that we were reliable allies did we see success. Until we engaged the real power, which was the sheiks and the tribal elders and not the talking heads within their government, did we see success. It was then and only then that the insurgency was brought under control.
I agree there was value in not acting as Maliki's enforcers. We should learn that lesson by not acting as Karzai's enforcers either.

We shouldn't hide behind big walls, weapons, and minefields.
Good strong fences make for good neighbours.

We need to get out there and mingle with the locals.
You should become a policeman, in your own country.

Yes, it's dangerous. But being a soldier is dangerous and it's something a soldier accepts when they sign the dotted line.
It's not right for our generals to be reckless with the lives of our soldiers. If there is a need for risk, OK. If there's no need for risk then don't take risks.

Defeat the ideology,
Broadcasting (controlling it, is how to win the propaganda war).

deny the enemy access,
To what, Afghanistan? It's a big country so forget that. To our bases and essential supply roads, sure.

and take away their sanctuary,
Sure, we need to bomb Taliban bases in Pakistan, see my topic - How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)

and empower the population and you win.
The way we empower the population is by employing some of them, to build our defences, to serve in our new NATO Afghan auxiliary force which I am proposing. If they have a job and income then they can afford to pay some tax to their own national government to run genuinely national Afghan police and military of their own. We don't empower the people by giving Karzai $6 billion dollars a year to spend on his own private army, also known as the "ANA" & "ANP". We have only empowered Karzai and his corrupt cronies by doing that.

Don't do this and you may not lose many soldiers in the short term, but in the long run you will be defeated and the growing body count, bank account, and diminished political will will breed disaster.
2,000 dead US soldiers in Afghanistan, billions spent. Given the weak enemies we face, who only survive at all off what we pay them, either directly in bribes or indirectly to their Pakistani and Saudi state masters, I'd call that a disaster, for a super-power anyway.

The only country which could defeat the US in Afghanistan is the US. Nobody else could lay a finger on the one super-power in the world otherwise.
 
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You are either mad or so heinously clueless you really shouldn't be so definitive with what you say. You suggest defending a single FOB with more resources than a small nation has. How many thirty mill cannons and tow missiles does the uk have ? You mention broadcasting as a means of defeating an ideology? WTF who are broadcasting to? You mentioned during your sims that terrain would affect the effectiveness of these tower defence how many places in Afghanistan can you find with 32 square Kim's of dead flat unobstructed and unihabited land to build thousands of the wasteful super bases .

Do you understand anything about counter insurgency ? So far you seem to think you have superior knowledge on what works despite what you suggest being what hasn't worked in the past.
 
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You are either mad or so heinously clueless you really shouldn't be so definitive with what you say.
Well look I think first you should have a clue about what I am proposing. The rest of your statement tells me you are clueless about my suggestion. Let me give you a clue.


You suggest defending a single FOB
No. Not a forward operating base. I am talking about our big bases, likes of Bastion / Leatherneck air base. That's the best example to pick of all our bases I think because Bastion is in more open country with lots of room around it for a 10 km / 6 mile wide ring of land around the central base to keep the enemy indirect fire weapons out of range.

So this plan being described and worked upon in this topic is a plan to defend Bastion, maybe Kandahar and Bagram air bases, maybe one or two other big regional bases. That's it, a handful of bases - 3, 4, 5 bases. This is not intended to be a plan for the hundreds of little FOBs we have dotted about the country.

with more resources than a small nation has. How many thirty mill cannons and tow missiles does the uk have ?
Well let's discuss that later. It needs to be affordable, for sure.

You mention broadcasting as a means of defeating an ideology? WTF who are broadcasting to?
Afghans, Pakistanis, Iranians, Saudis and other Arabs. It also involves stopping enemy broadcasting via TV satellites.

You mentioned during your sims that terrain would affect the effectiveness of these tower defence how many places in Afghanistan can you find with 32 square Kim's of dead flat unobstructed and unihabited land
There's a lot of flat ground in the south of the country.

That's not to say that a base like this can't be done in a few specific mountainous places where there the circle of towers can luckily be placed on high ground overlooking the surrounding countryside.


to build thousands of the wasteful super bases
Well we need to get you clued up about this. We are talking 3, 4, 5 or so bases, not thousands. Until you understand that, there's no point going into further details.

Do you understand anything about counter insurgency ? So far you seem to think you have superior knowledge on what works despite what you suggest being what hasn't worked in the past.
The people who have planned the "counter insurgency" notions, Petraeus etc have ignored factors like the terrorists are agents for states like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The Taliban insurgency at root is not really a local problem, it is a global war on terror. So this battle needs to be fought politically between the states concerned - see my other topic for how.

How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)

Pretending that this war is all about Karzai vs Mullah Omar is really to misunderstand the nature of the global war we are engaged in.
 
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So what if they don't hit anything with rudimentary rockets. They managed to kill several soldiers on my base last year with this method of shooting. Not to mention the numerous wounded and damage to infrastructure they did. They don't need to hit anything for them to have an effect. The fact we have to stop what we're doing and go to a bunker until we get the all clear is enough of an inconvenience for us to have to deal with these guys outside the base.


These auxileries you speak of...what happens when the Taliban gets a hold of these guys families for co-operating with the coalition. And these guys can't do anything about it because we're too busy using them to give us security on the super roads that only our vehicles can travel on safely to supply our bases?


Broadcasting does nothing for defeating the ideology in a country living in the 13th century. How do you motivate the Afghans to back this plan? You think they are as fickle as we are where money is their sole motivator? What good is money to them if they can't protect their families? Why would they be happy about any of us using their country with impunity? Setting up these bases implies our enduring presence, an even worse prospect for them in the end.


Do you know what pashtunwali is? Do you know anything about Islamist ideology? Do you know the difference between a Sunni and a Shia? Do you know anything about the numerous different tribal factions in Afghanistan? As a scientist I would assume that you would have studied up on all of this. Have you? How much do you actually know about the area? States mean nothing to most Muslems, are you aware of this?

If you can answer all of this, then you can have the condescending tone that you've had with me thus far. Until then, I suggest you read up on the history of the area and take in every concievable variable possible...you know...real science sh!t.


What are you basing these systems around anyways? Did you stop to think that maybe after years of practice, study, and employment that the military might actually know what they're doing when protecting themselves? Did you ever stop to consider the reason so many soldiers on here give you sh!t is because we might know a thing or two more about what you're attempting to talk about and we know you're reccomendations won't work. What makes you think you know better than us? Why should we take you seriously? Do you really give two sh!ts about what the guys on the ground thinks? Or do you just think this is a perfect oppurtunity to expand the Wests influence at the expense of brown people...again. Or, are you a troll? seriously?
 
...They don't need to hit anything for them to have an effect. The fact we have to stop what we're doing and go to a bunker until we get the all clear is enough of an inconvenience for us to have to deal with these guys outside the base. ...
Well said, Sir, and obviously one of the central parts (there are others) our scientist does not understand (though he himself stated that "understanding" was not his responsibility).

Just having them attacking disrupts initiative on our side. Period. Any other evaluations and considerations come later.

What are you basing these systems around anyways? Did you stop to think that maybe after years of practice, study, and employment that the military might actually know what they're doing when protecting themselves? Did you ever stop to consider the reason so many soldiers on here give you sh!t is because we might know a thing or two more about what you're attempting to talk about and we know you're reccomendations won't work. What makes you think you know better than us? Why should we take you seriously? Do you really give two sh!ts about what the guys on the ground thinks? Or do you just think this is a perfect oppurtunity to expand the Wests influence at the expense of brown people...again. Or, are you a troll? seriously?
Certainly got a lot of troll aspects, this gentleman, one of them being not able to listen to experience and sticking with his hilarious ideas despite them being named so by polite and diplomatic people.

Personally I think he is a kind of sociopath rather (though that does not exclude trolling, but this would just be a consequence or a symptom, not the origin of the problem or the basic attitude): Someone who is unable (pathologically) to doubt his own ideas (ideally, this would be what a a scientist based his attitude on, doubt: Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis). He has a paranoid streak feeling we all attack his "solid" and well founded ideas because of him (or whatever *he* understands under his concept of ego), and he cannot see (virtually) that he is stuck in a dead lane and will be so for the future if he does not start to analyze the problem under the light of the responses received from scratch.

Did you note he never asked (in any forum) one single question regarding the tactical vignette and the parameters? Says it all.

As such, discussion with him will most probably be fruit- and useless as nothing will be learned by any side and hence nothing gained.

I´d rather go and with 10 yrs more on my back delve deeper into the tactical challenges of a "Teleporting Tanks" concept, as this is from my POV one good example of what makes science in a military respect: You can learn from it...! ( http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/tacops-499/teleporting-tanks-cpx-aar/ ).

FWIW,

Rattler
 
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Well said, Sir, and obviously one of the central parts (there are others) our scientist does not understand (though he himself stated that "understanding" was not his responsibility).

Just having them attacking disrupts initiative on our side. Period. Any other evaluations and considerations come later.

Certainly got a lot of troll aspects, this gentleman, one of them being not able to listen to experience and sticking with his hilarious ideas despite them being named so by polite and diplomatic people.

Personally I think he is a kind of sociopath rather (though that does not exclude trolling, but this would just be a consequence or a symptom, not the origin of the problem or the basic attitude): Someone who is unable (pathologically) to doubt his own ideas (ideally, this would be what a a scientist based his attitude on, doubt: Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis). He has a paranoid streak feeling we all attack his "solid" and well founded ideas because of him (or whatever *he* understands under his concept of ego), and he cannot see (virtually) that he is stuck in a dead lane and will be so for the future if he does not start to analyze the problem under the light of the responses received from scratch.

Did you note he never asked (in any forum) one single question regarding the tactical vignette and the parameters? Says it all.

As such, discussion with him will most probably be fruit- and useless as nothing will be learned by any side and hence nothing gained.

I´d rather go and with 10 yrs more on my back delve deeper into the tactical challenges of a "Teleporting Tanks" concept, as this is from my POV one good example of what makes science in a military respect: You can learn from it...! ( http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/tacops-499/teleporting-tanks-cpx-aar/ ).

FWIW,

Rattler


What you are describing is a full blown narcissist, if you (Peter Dow) need counseling, I can help you with that (making some phone calls)
 
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