Pearl Harbour - Sleeping after the event?

perseus

Active member
I was listening to this account on the radio this morning

We are familiar with the surprise attack. However, I didn't realise the extent of disbelief and lethargy of the high ranking naval officials in the city area, despite loud explosions, and black smoke being visible from the harbour area. Admirals continued with their breakfast whilst a ship was being swerving then dissapearing in view of the dining room! When a hysterical woman came in, and told them what had happened, they told her she must be imagining it. However, gradually one by one the truth dawned on them and they quietly filtered out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00c6k49/Witness_Pearl_Harbour
 
Last edited:
The guy who told the radar operators not to worry about the incoming planes died this year. Imagine living with that for 70 years.
 
The radar operator did his job and informed the relevant people the fact that they did nothing about it should not and did not reflect on him.
Pearl Harbour was a case of a Country being at peace and was not looking for a war starting that morning with out notice
 
The radar operator did his job and informed the relevant people the fact that they did nothing about it should not and did not reflect on him.
Wasn't talking about the radar operator(s), but the guy they reported the sighting to. He failed to send it up the chain.
 
The Control Tower were expecting a flight of B17s and he assumed that is what the radio operator had seen, the last thing they were expecting was a few hundred angry Japanese warplanes.
 
The Control Tower were expecting a flight of B17s and he assumed that is what the radio operator had seen, the last thing they were expecting was a few hundred angry Japanese warplanes.
Gee, Sounds like a surprise attack, but that's what the radar was for.
 
Even if it were B-17s, wasn't it SOP to send out a couple Wildcats or Warhawks to confirm and welcome them?

And then, how hard is it for the tower to see the difference between the Mitsubishi A6M and a North American B-17. One has one engine and the other has four....
 
Even if it were B-17s, wasn't it SOP to send out a couple Wildcats or Warhawks to confirm and welcome them?

And then, how hard is it for the tower to see the difference between the Mitsubishi A6M and a North American B-17. One has one engine and the other has four....
You'd think they'd send a couple out, otherwise what's the point of the radar. By the time the Tower could see them it's way too late!
 
The radar in those days just informed you that some thing was coming your way and they did not have any FFI indicators. Now you are at peace expecting a flight of B17 bombers and at about the same time you are informed that there is a contact on the radar, so what would you do, call an instant alert. Now remember that it was a Sunday morning and if you were not down for duty your time is much your own and many of the pilots would not have even been on the base. Also for extra security many of the planes had been all stacked together so that it would be hard for saboteur to get to them, and it would been hard to get out and airborne and most of these planes would not have been fueled or armed.
 
Last edited:
The radar in those days just informed you that some thing was coming your way and they did not have any FFI indicators. Now you are at peace expecting a flight of B17 bombers and at about the same time you are informed that there is a contact on the radar, so what would you do, call an instant alert. Now remember that it was a Sunday morning and if you were not down for duty your time is much your own and many of the pilots would not have even been on the base. Also for extra security many of the planes had been all stacked together so that it would be hard for saboteur to get to them, and it would been hard to get out and airborne and most of these planes would not have been fueled or armed.
Obviously worried about the wrong threat. As the Japanese said, haven't they heard of Port Arthur? Too many asleep @ the switch @ many levels. I guess it's like not having a plane in position to shoot down the plane that hit the 2nd Tower on 9-11.
 
Last edited:
Radar was voodoo and many senior officers disregarded it early in the war. In First Savo, the US admiral did not use his radar equipped ships to inform his fleet of enemy movements, helping the Japanese to get the upper hand and costing the USN several valuable ships.
Likewise, communication was not instant in the early years of WWII. It was necessary to send "runners" on a Sunday morning, one of the reasons the Japanese selected Sunday Morning as the time of the attack.
 
Wasn't talking about the radar operator(s), but the guy they reported the sighting to. He failed to send it up the chain.

he was an officer and should have known better. the planes were reported coming in from the northwest. nothing up there but trackless ocean. he claimed it was the B-17 flight coming in from the US. a different track all together.
 
He acted in accord with his expectation. He knew his role, he did his duty. It was Sunday Morning, and peace time. To interrupt the Golf Game of the Senior Officers for some glitch on a machine Kimmel would have traded for a good coffee pot would have gotten him busted.

He had the opportunity to be a hero, and did not rise to the occasion, true.
 
Like many occasions the military fell down with a peace time attitude, now they all knew that there was trouble afoot but they did not raise there level of preparedness. The only thing they did that then work in favour of Japanese was to stack all their aircraft in a big mass on the airfield to save them from an attack from with in, yet presented the Japanese flyers with a god given target. If any one was to blame it was not the radar operator or the Air Traffic Controller, The blame should be laid at the feet of all the Admirals and Generals in Hawaii that carried on as if there was no threat to America whats so ever. There were no aircraft reconnaissance patrols out over the Pacific, very little of the American fleet was out of the harbour. Now there had been many signs that there was trouble ahead but any actions taken just helped the Japanese rather than hindered them.
 
the surprise attack on Pearl was the best thing that could have happened, there has been multiple simulations done on what would have happened if they had been warned by the radar tower, the entire anchored fleet would have steamed out of port, and the USS Enterprise would have steamed down from the north, most of the battleships that were sunk would have still be sunk but unlike what really happened they wouldnt have been able to be raised in from the ocean floor. not to mentions 10's of thousands of sailors and marines would not have been able to swim to safety and would have drowned. also if the USS Enterprise had happened to run into the Japanese fleet good chance we lose her as well, sure the Japanese lose a few hundred planes, but does that equal 6 or more sunken BB, most of their crews dead, and maby even the loss of CV-6 USS Enterprise, and without the Enterprise we would be set back years
 
One of the best cases that Washington was pushing for the War and ignored 'war' warnings was, five timezones past Hawaii, the Filipine Islands. At 08:00AM in Hawaii was 03:00AM in the Filipine Islands, was still on a peace time footing! WHY??? The military had plenty of time to prepare for an attack... of which they did not. Instead, planes were caught on the ground and warships still in port.

the surprise attack on Pearl was the best thing that could have happened
Another aspect of the surprise attack is it not only galvanized America but, military leaders were put in positions based upon what they could actually do best.
That is what put Adm. Chester Nimitz in charge of Pearl Harbor, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower in the diplomatic position of supreme allied commander, Gen. Grove in charge of the Manhattan Project or, Gen. Omar Bradley as a field commander. Commanders who were in positions they were not effective at were promptly removed and re-assigned.
Just the opposite of what happened with the Japanese. There is no logical reason to have Adm. Chuichi Nagumo to have been in charge of a carrier fleet (other than a political appointment), Nagumo was a battleship admiral! He did not understand carrier warfare 'in depth' and Pearl Harbor was just one of the battles his lack of fore-sight hurt the Japanese efforts.!
 
Back
Top