Paris ready to cooperate with Iran in nuclear power - Page 5




 
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Boots
 
October 27th, 2005  
mmarsh
 
 
Phoenix

Exactly what Ted said (Bravo Ted).

I'm not defending the French for what they did, my point is the old saying "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". Its very hypocritical for the US to critize France (or anyone else) for selling weapons when the USA remains the #1 arms exporter for the last decade (France is #5). The USA sold weapons to Saddam as well as did the French, Germans, Dutch Russians and Chinese.

For the record. The French sold 133 F-1 Mirages (back in the 1970s, mind you, when Iraq was a friend and Iran was not). They also 'lent' 5 SuperEtendard for the tanker war, but Saddam never bought any. So the Mirage F-1, the Exocet, the Roland I SAM, and the Gazelle helicopter. That is what Saddam bought from France. Everything else, (about 80-90%) was of mostly Russian design.

You are also wrong on the Chemicals. Nobody knew where Saddam got those chemicals from for several years. The sale was secret by the Reagan administration and it went through a dutch middleman (now in jail). It took a congressional investigation in the 1990's to figure out where Saddam got them from. Do you really think any country is going to admit selling WMD? Please.

Gladius

Remember what I said about America being hypocritical, you just proved it.

France has its faults like any other nation, some of them serious. But take my word as somebody who has lived at length in both countries (8 in France, 28 in the USA). As a society, nobody, I repeat nobody, is more obsessed about money than in the USA. Money right now is the 'raison d'etre' in America. More than anything else, our greed is our greatest weakness and it will lead to our downfall.

You can quote me on that.
October 27th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Gladius

Remember what I said about America being hypocritical, you just proved it.
The only the thing I proved is France's motives are ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

Yes the USA sold weapons and helped Saddam, ect, ect, ect,. What you think i don't already know this?

But in the end when it comes down to it the US is willing to risk its troops and promote democracy. What is France doing to promote democracy in the Middle East? NOTHING!

That is the big difference.

Both you and Ted keep bringing up moot points, trying to argue that US government and bussines was also involved with Saddam, of course they were. This is not something new.

But in the end when it came down to it, the US took action when France was still ogling Saddam's cash.

Thats were the both of you have no say. So you try to shift the topic, in saying how everyone including America was involved too, and all kinds of other jibber jabber.


Quote:
France has its faults like any other nation, some of them serious. But take my word as somebody who has lived at length in both countries (8 in France, 28 in the USA). As a society, nobody, I repeat nobody, is more obsessed about money than in the USA. Money right now is the 'raison d'etre' in America. More than anything else, our greed is our greatest weakness and it will lead to our downfall.

You can quote me on that.
It may lead to our downfall that maybe true, then again maybe not.

Even if it is true. Europe will fall before the United States. In fact Europe is almost practicaly doomed, and it is your left-wing, politically correct, neo-pacifist thinking that has brought you this. You will not last more than 50 to 100 years.
October 27th, 2005  
Chocobo_Blitzer
 
Point is, France was against the war partially due to their oil deals. I'm pretty sure that's why everyone keeps bringing it up, because they turn the other cheek due to them. Everyone has been a bad boy, we all know that! But the context in to which the deals exist.

It makes France seem really deceitful and even treasonous.
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Boots
October 27th, 2005  
Ted
 
 
I have seen one or two documentaries of a man named Michael Moore who stated that Bush and his friends didn't do so bad either. Oil prices going sky high and selling oil... hmm sounds good. All the infrastructure that needs fixing.... not bad if you are a contractor that happens to know somebody in the administration. But off course this is all circumstantial.

And now comes the big questions: What if your supreme commander sent you over there for money reasons. His friends made millions already in promised contracts and it sounds nice "spreading freedom and democracy" doesn't it.
I know that the Europeans have wicked motives and I have no reason to believe that the US is any different. I can't prove any of this, but you can't either. The probably isn't such a document that says: the war in Iraq happened because of.......
October 27th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Yeah, you Europeans can believe in whatever you wish to but that doesn't change the fact for sure.

History will judge!
October 28th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
And now comes the big questions: What if your supreme commander sent you over there for money reasons. His friends made millions already in promised contracts and it sounds nice "spreading freedom and democracy" doesn't it.
I know that the Europeans have wicked motives and I have no reason to believe that the US is any different. I can't prove any of this, but you can't either. The probably isn't such a document that says: the war in Iraq happened because of.......
What if this...

What if that...

What matters is what being done now.

Your just trying really hard find ways to justify the French governments position, when you know its doing nothing to help the spread of democracy in Iraq.

I'm sure there are people who will try to make money anyway they know how even in the name of democracy in Iraq, and that won't change till the end of world, yada, yada, yada.

But at least the end result will be that of helping someone (like the Iraqi people), something that the US is willing to take a risk for. That is the difference between the US and France. France who's government makes decisions based on profit alone. France talks idealisticly, but really ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.