Palin pre-empts state report, clears self in probe
Of course, when considering political criminality, it is always convenient to overlook the contributions in that respect of the champions of Democrats and their candidate, currently; Teddy Kennedy and The Clintons. Furthermore, there are great sensitivities regarding the precise record of their said candidate.
As DTop politely suggests, there are two sides in every case.
As DTop politely suggests, there are two sides in every case.
Last edited:
mmarsh
Active member
Sure they're allowed too, as I said its just not very believable. I sat on a jury in 3 criminal cases, I didn't believe it from them either.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Oh please! Of course she's going to find HERSELF innocent.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
This is a natural thing but this does not make her version of the events incorrect.
However it does raise further questions in that if her version is correct why did she refuse to cooperate with the investigation, why was there a sizable attempt to have the investigation stopped by her supporters and why was there a need for her write a report on the matter when there was an "independent" investigation that was doing the same thing.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Anyone who says they have nothing to hide yet will not cooperate with the people who will find you innocent if you supposedly have nothing to hide is lying.
DTop
Active member
I have been on 9 juries and I always reserved making a decision each time until all sides had their say and all evidence was presented.
Perhaps this link will help you make up your mind, DTop.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7662820.stm
Maybe you could also read this.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/palin-makes-tro.html
Sarah and Todd don't come out smelling like roses do they, DTop!
But as you wisely said DTop.
"Some folks prefer to consider all sides before reaching, rather than jumping to a conclusion. Chew on all the facts before digesting the whole story".
Keep chewing DTop but I think the taste might be getting a little sour by now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7662820.stm
Maybe you could also read this.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/palin-makes-tro.html
Sarah and Todd don't come out smelling like roses do they, DTop!
But as you wisely said DTop.
"Some folks prefer to consider all sides before reaching, rather than jumping to a conclusion. Chew on all the facts before digesting the whole story".
Keep chewing DTop but I think the taste might be getting a little sour by now.
Last edited:
DTop
Active member
Well, I've still got time before I cast my vote. Chew, chew, and chew some more, I say. Sample all the ingredients before deciding if the meal is worth the price on the tab.
As I see it, despite what some in the media may have us think, this election is still very much up for grabs.
One of your sources says: "The investigator did conclude that Palin's firing of Monegan was within her power".
This from the other article: "However, the report said that the actual sacking of Mr Monegan was not beyond Mrs Palin's legal powers. ".
Thanks for the info though, very interesting. As I hope all Americans will, I will take it all into consideration before I walk into my local voting booth next month.
As I see it, despite what some in the media may have us think, this election is still very much up for grabs.
One of your sources says: "The investigator did conclude that Palin's firing of Monegan was within her power".
This from the other article: "However, the report said that the actual sacking of Mr Monegan was not beyond Mrs Palin's legal powers. ".
Thanks for the info though, very interesting. As I hope all Americans will, I will take it all into consideration before I walk into my local voting booth next month.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
DTop
The report ALSO said that Palin is guilty of violationg ethics through the misuse of the powers of the Governor of Alaska. It 'may' end up being enough to remove her from office via impeachment. Time will tell.
The report went so far as to state, her violation of ethics was knowingly carried out by Sarah Palin herself, in an effort to force the firing of her ex-brother-in-law.
The report ALSO said that Palin is guilty of violationg ethics through the misuse of the powers of the Governor of Alaska. It 'may' end up being enough to remove her from office via impeachment. Time will tell.
The report went so far as to state, her violation of ethics was knowingly carried out by Sarah Palin herself, in an effort to force the firing of her ex-brother-in-law.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Since there's a lot of Palin bashing I'll see the other side of the argument a bit.
It really seems as though Monegan simply landed on Palin's sh*t list. As far as I know, in any line of work, if you land on the sh*t list of someone who out ranks you, the odds are that if you're not stellar at your job, you're going to get canned.
Before we also go jumping to conclusions about the conduct we also have to take into account how this works with Alaskan culture.
For example, let's say you're a department head for an American company in Indonesia. One of your employees has been found bribing certain Indonesian individuals. You chose to fire him. In that case even though the employee did violate rules, regulation and even the law, you'd be the idiot because without a certain level of bribery, your company would get nothing processed through local channels.
Now, in Alaska, could what Palin did not really constitute as out of the ordinary?
It really seems as though Monegan simply landed on Palin's sh*t list. As far as I know, in any line of work, if you land on the sh*t list of someone who out ranks you, the odds are that if you're not stellar at your job, you're going to get canned.
Before we also go jumping to conclusions about the conduct we also have to take into account how this works with Alaskan culture.
For example, let's say you're a department head for an American company in Indonesia. One of your employees has been found bribing certain Indonesian individuals. You chose to fire him. In that case even though the employee did violate rules, regulation and even the law, you'd be the idiot because without a certain level of bribery, your company would get nothing processed through local channels.
Now, in Alaska, could what Palin did not really constitute as out of the ordinary?
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Troopergate Report ... ethics violation .....
Redneck ...
Did you read the Troopergate Report??? There was nothing wrong with the firing of Monegan ... Palin appointed him and can fire him for ANY reason.
What you didn't mention, was the report that Palin violated the ethics of her office, in that she misused her powers when she used her position as Governor of Alaska to try to force the firing of her ex-brother-in-law {that was the finding of the report}.
the_13th_redneck said:
Redneck ...
Did you read the Troopergate Report??? There was nothing wrong with the firing of Monegan ... Palin appointed him and can fire him for ANY reason.
What you didn't mention, was the report that Palin violated the ethics of her office, in that she misused her powers when she used her position as Governor of Alaska to try to force the firing of her ex-brother-in-law {that was the finding of the report}.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
No I haven't read the thing, been a little busy lately.
Just saying, there could be a different angle.
So it wasn't illegal but they thought it was unethical?
Happens all the time.
Hell, I got fired from work for being too effective and difficult to lie to. Unethical? Yes. Do they have the right to? I guess so, it's their company.
Just saying, there could be a different angle.
So it wasn't illegal but they thought it was unethical?
Happens all the time.
Hell, I got fired from work for being too effective and difficult to lie to. Unethical? Yes. Do they have the right to? I guess so, it's their company.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Tain't the same thing ...
Tain't the same thing ...
Violation of ethics, can get a President OR a Governor removed from office via impeachment. Palin is accused of misuse of gubernatorial powers ... a very very serious charge (even in Alaska). The Troopergate Report, is damning ... it's findings are that Palin (along wirh her husband), used the power of the Governor's position and office, to try and get her ex-brother-in-law fired ... which is a major misuse of power.
Redneck ....
Tain't the same thing ...
Violation of ethics, can get a President OR a Governor removed from office via impeachment. Palin is accused of misuse of gubernatorial powers ... a very very serious charge (even in Alaska). The Troopergate Report, is damning ... it's findings are that Palin (along wirh her husband), used the power of the Governor's position and office, to try and get her ex-brother-in-law fired ... which is a major misuse of power.
mmarsh
Active member
Just to continue the Chiefs excellent point.
Assuming that what happened was neither unethical nor illegal or likewise anything 'wrong', doesn't it speak rather badly about her personality in general? I mean do we really want such a vindictive and mean-spirited person in the White House? I once had a boss who was like this (picked favorites, made nasty remarks, fired people he didn't like on merely personal not professional grounds, etc) and he really poisoned the work atmosphere. He was both feared and hated, and other people went to long lengths to get him fired, embarrassed or thwarted. He was just toxic.
Also some of the remarks she has said about Obama ("pals around with terrorists") have just been beyond the pale of decency, not only untrue but simply libelous. That's not even dirty politics thats just being a totally rotten individual. Not even McCain has sunk that low, Behind Palin's smile and the charm resides a mean spirited person. And personally I think THAT more than partisanship is why people in Alaskan politics don't like her; for someone in office for such a brief amount of time she has made plenty of enemies.
Assuming that what happened was neither unethical nor illegal or likewise anything 'wrong', doesn't it speak rather badly about her personality in general? I mean do we really want such a vindictive and mean-spirited person in the White House? I once had a boss who was like this (picked favorites, made nasty remarks, fired people he didn't like on merely personal not professional grounds, etc) and he really poisoned the work atmosphere. He was both feared and hated, and other people went to long lengths to get him fired, embarrassed or thwarted. He was just toxic.
Also some of the remarks she has said about Obama ("pals around with terrorists") have just been beyond the pale of decency, not only untrue but simply libelous. That's not even dirty politics thats just being a totally rotten individual. Not even McCain has sunk that low, Behind Palin's smile and the charm resides a mean spirited person. And personally I think THAT more than partisanship is why people in Alaskan politics don't like her; for someone in office for such a brief amount of time she has made plenty of enemies.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Alright, thanks. Just needed to know.
Because often people do take things out of perspective. But I guess that is not the case this time around.
Because often people do take things out of perspective. But I guess that is not the case this time around.
DTop
Active member
REPORT CLEARS PALIN in Troopergate investigation
ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Gov. Sarah Palin violated no ethics laws when she fired her public safety commissioner, the state personnel board concluded in a report released Monday. "There is no probable cause to believe that the governor, or any other state official, violated the Alaska Executive Ethics Act in connection with these matters," the report says.
"Gov. Palin is pleased that the independent investigator for the Personnel Board has concluded that she acted properly in the reassignment of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan," her attorney, Thomas Van Flein, said in a statement.
An earlier, separate investigation by the Legislature found that Palin had abused her office.
Monegan said he felt pressure from Palin, her husband and her staff to fire a state trooper who had gone through a nasty divorce from Palin's sister. Palin denied the claim, and said Monegan was fired last July because she wanted the department to head in a new direction.
Monegan told The Associated Press on Monday that he was "perplexed and disappointed" by the report. It was prepared by Timothy Petumenos, an independent investigator for the Alaska Personnel Board.
"It conflicts with the first investigation and then casts doubts on both of them. So, it doesn't really resolve anything," he said. "If it did, then I could walk away. It does seem to fly in the face if circumstantial evidence."
A separate legislative investigation recently concluded that Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, abused her office by allowing her husband and staffers to pressure Monegan to fire the trooper. However, it upheld the firing because Monegan was an at-will employee.
Alaska Personnel Board investigations are normally secret, but the three-member board decided to release this report, citing public interest in the matter given Palin's status as a candidate for national office. Election Day is Tuesday.
Palin had earlier waived her privacy rights, but others in her administration did not and Petumenos sought to keep the matter from playing out in the media.
Documents released Monday did not include transcripts of separate depositions given by Palin and her husband, Todd.
That deposition was the only one given by Sarah Palin. She was not subpoenaed to answer questions in the Legislature's investigation, though her husband, Todd, gave an affidavit in that probe.
Petumenos said that during her deposition given under oath, Sarah Palin denied Monegan's claim — also given under oath — that she had two conversations with him about the trooper.
"Both of those conversations were denied in their entirety by the governor," Petumenos said.
Palin initially said she would cooperate with the Legislature's probe. But after she became John McCain's running mate, she said the investigation had become too partisan and filed an ethics grievance against herself with the personnel board.
Telephone messages left with state Sens. Hollis French, who led the legislative investigation, and Sen. Kim Elton, chairman of the Legislative Council, were not immediately returned.
SOURCE
The saddest thing is that this vindication over the mud slingers has come a little too late.
ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Gov. Sarah Palin violated no ethics laws when she fired her public safety commissioner, the state personnel board concluded in a report released Monday. "There is no probable cause to believe that the governor, or any other state official, violated the Alaska Executive Ethics Act in connection with these matters," the report says.
"Gov. Palin is pleased that the independent investigator for the Personnel Board has concluded that she acted properly in the reassignment of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan," her attorney, Thomas Van Flein, said in a statement.
An earlier, separate investigation by the Legislature found that Palin had abused her office.
Monegan said he felt pressure from Palin, her husband and her staff to fire a state trooper who had gone through a nasty divorce from Palin's sister. Palin denied the claim, and said Monegan was fired last July because she wanted the department to head in a new direction.
Monegan told The Associated Press on Monday that he was "perplexed and disappointed" by the report. It was prepared by Timothy Petumenos, an independent investigator for the Alaska Personnel Board.
"It conflicts with the first investigation and then casts doubts on both of them. So, it doesn't really resolve anything," he said. "If it did, then I could walk away. It does seem to fly in the face if circumstantial evidence."
A separate legislative investigation recently concluded that Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, abused her office by allowing her husband and staffers to pressure Monegan to fire the trooper. However, it upheld the firing because Monegan was an at-will employee.
Alaska Personnel Board investigations are normally secret, but the three-member board decided to release this report, citing public interest in the matter given Palin's status as a candidate for national office. Election Day is Tuesday.
Palin had earlier waived her privacy rights, but others in her administration did not and Petumenos sought to keep the matter from playing out in the media.
Documents released Monday did not include transcripts of separate depositions given by Palin and her husband, Todd.
That deposition was the only one given by Sarah Palin. She was not subpoenaed to answer questions in the Legislature's investigation, though her husband, Todd, gave an affidavit in that probe.
Petumenos said that during her deposition given under oath, Sarah Palin denied Monegan's claim — also given under oath — that she had two conversations with him about the trooper.
"Both of those conversations were denied in their entirety by the governor," Petumenos said.
Palin initially said she would cooperate with the Legislature's probe. But after she became John McCain's running mate, she said the investigation had become too partisan and filed an ethics grievance against herself with the personnel board.
Telephone messages left with state Sens. Hollis French, who led the legislative investigation, and Sen. Kim Elton, chairman of the Legislative Council, were not immediately returned.
SOURCE
The saddest thing is that this vindication over the mud slingers has come a little too late.