Palin enters debate over Ground Zero Mosque

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20100719/pl_politico/39899


After a lot of careful consideration on this, and bearing in mind the fact that this mosque IS 2 blocks away from Ground Zero, not actually ON it, I've decided that it's okay in my book. I know a lot of people (especially on this particular forum) will feel differently, but, as one comment reminded me, we are at war with Islamic extremists, not Islam. Thoughts? I'd especially like to hear from NYC native, mmarsh, on this one. Does a Muslim YMCA (basically what this place boils down to) so close to Ground Zero sit well with you?
 
I'm really torn on this. As you said, its a war against Islamic extremists, not Islam itself. But that close to Ground Zero....it just feels wrong to me. I'm interested to hear (or read rather) what some of you have to say on this topic.
 
Yes it should be allowed.
Unless we really want to make it into a war against Islam.
Exactly. I fear that not allowing this would undo some, if not all, of the work President Obama has been doing to salvage US relationships with the Islamic people of the world.

Sevens- I had my uncertainties, but I think since it's not actually using Ground Zero as a site, that they should be okay.
 
I guess.....but it still feels wrong to me for it to be so close to Ground Zero. But I'll read the pros and cons with an open mind, and then see if I feel any different.
 
I guess I'll just put it this way: We can't say that the US is not engaged in a war against Islam and that Islam is protected under the freedom of religion IF this mosque is not allowed to go up.
If it is allowed to be built, it would serve as a very strong counter argument against those who try to claim that the US is fighting a war against Islam.
 
Setting my emotions aside,.. I dont see a prob. w/it...that's the beauty about America....you have rights, and a voice that can be heard without the fear of being killed on the spot... ;)
 
First a correction: Its not a Mosque its a Islamic community center that contains a prayer space. It also contains lecture halls, exhibit space a culinary school, a gym and a swimming pool. Yes, very much like a YMCA which are built for Christians.

This all reminds me of the internment camps of Japanese-Americans during WWII which was one of the worst injustices our nation ever committed.

Muslims did not attack the WTC, terrorists did. Not all terrorists are Muslim and not all Muslims are terrorists. Almost all Muslims living in America are either citizens ro permanent residents. My parents apartment is directly across the street from a mosque, in the 40 years they have lived there the mosque nor the worshipers has never posed any problem aside from finding a parking spot on noon Fridays.

We cannot collectively punish one sector of our society because of the actions of a small few, whom were not even American and were in the country illegally. Nor, as 13th Redneck astutely pointed out do we want to play directly into terrorist propaganda. If we go ahead and allow a Mosque to be built on the 9-11 site it severely undermines the credibility of al-Qaeda claim of the U.S being at war against Islam.

What I do find highly offensive however is a self-absorbed carpetbagger sticking her nose in a LOCAL affair that is strictly none of her business in order to bolster her political credibility amongst the lunatic fringe. New York does not like Sarah Palin. We don't like her views, her bizarre family, or her personally. She is not a New Yorker, and she is really not that welcome in NY due to her past remarks when she suggested that people who don't share her views (who were typically those on the coasts) were not "Real" Americans. Well Fu** you Eva Braun, I'd tell her to go back to Alaska but apparently she isn't much liked there either.

The fact is Sarah Palin doesn't like New York, (which is fine, the feeling is most mutual) and I don't find her concern genuine except of how it relates to her campaign. So we really don't appreciate her raking ethnic tensions and reopening old wounds in my hometown all for the sake of her 2012 campaign political grandstanding. If New York decides to build this center (which it has) its none of that political *****'s business. We are trying to mend fences in NYC between all the ethnicities and religions in NYC, and it isn't easy. We don't need Palin making things worse.
She talks about healing as if she knew anything about it. The only people who need healing are the people who were there, and we certainly don't need it from her. If she is TRULY concerned about healing after 9-11 then she should STFU and leave us be.
 
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Exactly. I fear that not allowing this would undo some, if not all, of the work President Obama has been doing to salvage US relationships with the Islamic people of the world.

Sevens- I had my uncertainties, but I think since it's not actually using Ground Zero as a site, that they should be okay.

Rob. I disagree, unless you think that the Obama apology tour did any good.

Marsh. Your vitriol is noted. You don't like Sarah Palin. Got it. New Yorkers are decent hard working people who tend to be pretty passionate about their causes.

Everyone needs to understand that politicans talk. And talk. And talk. Many other politicans, who have nothing to do with NY or NYC have sounded off about this, yet the media CHOSE to report Palins comments because they generate both outrage and interest.

The city of NY approved this project. If the citizens of NYC have issue they can take it up with city hall. Comments from everyone else are worth their weight in gold.

Now for my worthless opinion.
While at first thought it seems like a slap in the face of ALL New Yorkers, both sky and ACoM make good points. Freedom is one of the greatest gifts that we Americans have. I will have to side with them. Let them build it.

One final note. It think it is disingenuous that the media is invoking Ground Zero. The build site is a full 2 blocks away and were the media to report the actual site with no reference to Ground Zero, no one would have taken ANY notice.
 
Rob. I disagree, unless you think that the Obama apology tour did any good.

Marsh. Your vitriol is noted. You don't like Sarah Palin. Got it. New Yorkers are decent hard working people who tend to be pretty passionate about their causes.

Everyone needs to understand that politicans talk. And talk. And talk. Many other politicans, who have nothing to do with NY or NYC have sounded off about this, yet the media CHOSE to report Palins comments because they generate both outrage and interest.

The city of NY approved this project. If the citizens of NYC have issue they can take it up with city hall. Comments from everyone else are worth their weight in gold.

Now for my worthless opinion.
While at first thought it seems like a slap in the face of ALL New Yorkers, both sky and ACoM make good points. Freedom is one of the greatest gifts that we Americans have. I will have to side with them. Let them build it.

One final note. It think it is disingenuous that the media is invoking Ground Zero. The build site is a full 2 blocks away and were the media to report the actual site with no reference to Ground Zero, no one would have taken ANY notice.

The fact I don't like Sarah Palin is not the point, and there is a BIG difference between her and those other politicians that being THEY aren't running for President. If John McCain said it, fine. As long as he is not trying to run for office on it, no problems. But Sarah Palin is exactly the political ***** I despise. I find it totally inappropriate and disgusting for any politician to build their big tent on the graves of 3000 people, and that goes double for Politicians like Palin and Bush who have the audacity to claim they speak for us when in reality they loath us. New Yorkers do not like being used, and especially not by Conservative Republican Politicians on one of the cities most sensitive subjects.

I, and almost all New Yorkers didn't appreciate one bit the GOP using 9-11 as their backdrop to Bush's 2004 reelection campaign, especially because Bush largely responsible for the security lapses that lead to 9-11. He also reneged on most of his promises to help us after it happened. Bush used us like a dirty handkerchief and then tossed us away when he was done. I know Palin doesn't give a damn about NYC, so let her grandstand somewhere else.

And the same goes for Giuliani in 2008. I voted for Giuliani TWICE. I am more forgiving on Giuliani than the others because he is a New Yorker and he was a good mayor before and during 9-11. But the way he tried to shamelessly cashier on 9-11 in order to court the fringes in 2008 was disgusting. Bye. Bye. Rudy, your political career is done.

Its a very simple deal. Don't use 9-11 as a backdrop to your political campaign and that goes double for conservatives because you simply are not one of us. You were not here during 9-11 before or afterwards and you did not suffer. So when a politician comes crying crocodile tears 10 years afterwards doesn't make New Yorkers want to sympathize with you.

Palin Wrote:

"Peaceful New Yorkers, pls refute the Ground Zero mosque plan if you believe catastrophic pain caused @ Twin Towers site is too raw, too real."

Painful? Too Raw? Too Real? Who the hell is this cow speaking for? I would wager she had never even been to NY until she became governor. Pretty ballsy to be telling us what we should do with our own graveyard?

I knew quite a few people who died on 9-11. Not personally, but well enough. Odd thing is while I don't remember their names I do remember their faces. I don't like to talk about 9-11, and it drives me crazy when self serving politicians do. What goes on at WTC, PA, or the Pentagon is no ones business except for those who bare wounds, not political carpetbaggers from Alaska.
 
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First a correction: Its not a Mosque its a Islamic community center that contains a prayer space. It also contains lecture halls, exhibit space a culinary school, a gym and a swimming pool. Yes, very much like a YMCA which are built for Christians. -snip- Muslims did not attack the WTC, terrorists did. Not all terrorists are Muslim and not all Muslims are terrorists.
Agree with all, and also, of the (overall) 6k death toll 9/11 took a significant portion were muslims, and this seems to become ignored more and more.

It is terrorism/terrorists we fight, in the US, in Spain, in Mexico, in Columbia, elswewhere. Mixing this with religion from one or the other side is simply for stupids and used to fuel a political agenda.

Calling a community center a Mosque, or calling an area some kms away "ground zero" is done on purpose, by politicians who know what they are doing and why.

Rattler
 
Rob. I disagree, unless you think that the Obama apology tour did any good.
I think if you ask anyone around the world if that apology tour did any good, they'd tell you just how much good it did. When I was in Italy this past May, I didn't see "F*ck Obama" graffiti-ed on the walls, I saw "F*ck Bush." Obama's world opinion (including the Middle East) is significantly higher than Bush's, because of his attitude towards the rest of the world. I ask you to note the significant absence of any further attacks (minus the little van incident, which was handled with aplomb) on the United States.
Marsh. Your vitriol is noted. You don't like Sarah Palin. Got it. New Yorkers are decent hard working people who tend to be pretty passionate about their causes.

Everyone needs to understand that politicans talk. And talk. And talk. Many other politicans, who have nothing to do with NY or NYC have sounded off about this, yet the media CHOSE to report Palins comments because they generate both outrage and interest.

The city of NY approved this project. If the citizens of NYC have issue they can take it up with city hall. Comments from everyone else are worth their weight in gold.

Now for my worthless opinion.
While at first thought it seems like a slap in the face of ALL New Yorkers, both sky and ACoM make good points. Freedom is one of the greatest gifts that we Americans have. I will have to side with them. Let them build it.

One final note. It think it is disingenuous that the media is invoking Ground Zero. The build site is a full 2 blocks away and were the media to report the actual site with no reference to Ground Zero, no one would have taken ANY notice.
You know, Hokie, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you had to disagree with me just because it was me. Didn't I make the exact same argument(s)?
 
This topic is pretty transparent. Rob wanted a debate on Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin's opinion is worth exactly the same a mmarshs.

The building of a Islamic center should not really generate much of a Debate in the US. Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution.

This is not France where they pass laws against how some one dresses.

To generate a debate Rob had to figure out how to try and make it a left vs right issue.
 
This topic is pretty transparent. Rob wanted a debate on Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin's opinion is worth exactly the same a mmarshs.

The building of a Islamic center should not really generate much of a Debate in the US. Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution.

This is not France where they pass laws against how some one dresses.

To generate a debate Rob had to figure out how to try and make it a left vs right issue.
There's stuff going around, with examples like The Dome of the Rock, of how Mosques are built on(near?) sites of Islamic victories against other religions. So you have people who see the Islamisation of Europe & what happened in Lebanon & worry about what is probably planned for us vs the Libs who are all in favor of freedom of religion when it comes to nonChristians & have the view of not caring where or what they build.
 
This topic is pretty transparent. Rob wanted a debate on Sarah Palin.
I wanted opinions on the issue of the Islamic center near Ground Zero. It's not my fault Sarah Palin can't keep her mouth shut or her nose out of everyone else's business.
Sarah Palin's opinion is worth exactly the same a mmarshs.
Actually, I think the opinion of a New York City citizen is worth a slight bit MORE than someone who lived across the entire country her entire life.

The building of a Islamic center should not really generate much of a Debate in the US. Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution.
Normally, you'd be right, but in this case, where said Islamic center is so close to the site of a national tragedy that was committed by Islamic extremists (dunno if you can see the connection that exists or not), the line might become a little more blurry. This could be considered as extremely insensitive to the American "plight." However, it seems most "real" Americans realize that the Constitutional right of religious freedom is of utmost importance.
This is not France where they pass laws against how some one dresses.

To generate a debate Rob had to figure out how to try and make it a left vs right issue.
Look out everyone, there's a troll on the loose. Chukpike, please supply sources to verify your statement is true. I'll accept a usage of the word "Democract," "Republican," "Liberal," "Conservative," or "Tea Party" (or any derogatory variation thereof) by me and only me.

There's stuff going around, with examples like The Dome of the Rock, of how Mosques are built on(near?) sites of Islamic victories against other religions. So you have people who see the Islamisation of Europe & what happened in Lebanon & worry about what is probably planned for us vs the Libs who are all in favor of freedom of religion when it comes to nonChristians & have the view of not caring where or what they build.
So, George, would that mean that you are AGAINST the building of this Islamic center near Ground Zero?
 
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Forgot to add...another concern about the closeness is that the Islamists can/will make propaganda that it is a victory celebration builing, even if it isn't, if it is allowed too close to the Site. How far away is far enough. Mmarsh's comments seem to have the attitude that the attack was on the people & City of New York, not the US in general. That would be quite a suprise to most Americans & ignores the Pentagon & Pa. crash/attacks.
 
This topic is pretty transparent. Rob wanted a debate on Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin's opinion is worth exactly the same a mmarshs.

The building of a Islamic center should not really generate much of a Debate in the US. Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution.

This is not France where they pass laws against how some one dresses.

To generate a debate Rob had to figure out how to try and make it a left vs right issue.

1. If you cannot tell the difference between the opinions of someone who truly grieves and a political hack high-fiving the sheep for her political campaign then you are truly blind.

The fact is that neither Sarah NOR YOUactually knew anyone who died that day. Its easy to make such blanket statements when those that died are just convenient numbers and not actual people you used to work with. Makes the talking points much easier to regurgitate.

2. Wrong. There is nothing in the constitution that requires that a Religious building be built on a specific spot. The site is situated in a commercial zone. The city can deny a permit to build if it choses, especially as was mentioned several times earlier the project is not a religious building but a community center.

3. What a pathetic attempt to troll, your're really slipping as of late. And I wouldn't criticize Rob in your shoes, at least hes trying to start a political debate, thats far more than I can say for you. Your sole mission here is to start a fight. Why else did you post? Your response said nothing insightful. The only original part was take a pathetic swipe at Rob and I which was boring.

George

Its because we are the ones that have the scars, all you've got is rhetoric. Your not a victim unless you have actually lost something. I lost people I knew, a good portion of my city was in ruins for months. Many people were paralyzed for weeks without telephone, transportation and other basic services. And not to downplay the Pentagon or PA but the overwhelming numbers of death and damage was in NYC thats why the focus in there.

You did not suffer anything, all you did was watch the news on TV. Only people who were there, or were there before, can understand. I wept when I saw the towers fall, Did you?
 
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Forgot to add...another concern about the closeness is that the Islamists can/will make propaganda that it is a victory celebration builing, even if it isn't, if it is allowed too close to the Site. How far away is far enough. Mmarsh's comments seem to have the attitude that the attack was on the people & City of New York, not the US in general. That would be quite a suprise to most Americans & ignores the Pentagon & Pa. crash/attacks.
I don't think anyone is denying that the attack was on the United States as a nation, but the fact is that it affected the city of New York on a much, MUCH deeper level than any one of us can imagine. Like mmarsh just said, numbers and names in a book are one thing, but to know people who might have jumped off the side of the Twin Towers to avoid being burned to death or worse, that's just unthinkable. I consider myself LUCKY to not know anyone who died that day. It WAS an attack on the people and city of New York, but it was also a message to the entire country.

I think mmarsh is ignoring the Pentagon and PA crashes because there isn't an Islamic recreation center of sorts wanting to be built near those sites. Plain and simple.

George, the fact of the matter is that we cannot deny this building simply because of its proximity to Ground Zero. It goes against the right of freedom of religion, which is guaranteed by the Constitution. We would be stooping to the very level of our attackers on that fateful day if we were to deny this building solely based on its religious background. We must take the high road, we must be the bigger man. We must be the ones who say, "Sure, you can attack us, but we're not going to punish your entire faith simply because of a few fringe extremists."
 
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