Rob Henderson
Banned
It will contain a mosque as well, Rattler.
Palin enters debate over Ground Zero Mosque
Yup, all discriptions say Islamic Center & Mosque. Another commentor. The Dutch have been very religiously tolerant, how's that working for them?
Rob Henderson
Banned
Shocker. Another naysayer, another Republican. Anyone else seeing a pattern here?
George, what are your objections to the plans? I haven't seen a clear answer from you yet.
pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
It's my personal opinion it's like a slap in the face to New York. As I said before, I have nothing against Islam. And you know, I know everyone is so damn supportive of freedom of religion but I have some opinions on that too that aren't so "American." (And I am not meaning this in the sense of supporting or not supporting Islam, I am speaking of some other religion/groups). To each their own and I am fully supportive of the New Yorkers who don't want the Mosque (or whatever the hell you want to call it) built so close to Ground Zero.
As I said, if the shoe was on the other foot I doubt they'd want us to build a church or YMCA on their turf.
Excuse me, I mean the YMCA thing that has the "prayer room".
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
You want to hold yourself to their standards? Then you might as well shred this Constitution you like so much to shreds.
pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
Hmm, I just don't agree with having every freedom in the world. Hell, look at the Westboro church. Not one of us should have to listen or be a targeted victim of hate like that. It would be one thing if people had common courtesy or even basic human morals when they spouted their own opinions. It's quite another to force it down people's throats and yet then have THEM protected by the government and the victims just must take it.
(This is just one of the things I was thinking about when I say I don't always agree with full "freedom of religion" or full "freedom of speech).
(This is just one of the things I was thinking about when I say I don't always agree with full "freedom of religion" or full "freedom of speech).
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
You want to stoop to that level? Fine.
Whatever you believe your country to be, you can rip it up and throw it away because do you know what is the difference between an America that DOESN'T believe in this stuff compared with all the countries that have come and gone? Not a damned thing. Look, compared to many parts of the developed world, America just isn't even that great anymore. But you know what makes America worth it? The fact that some jack asses can fly a plane full of innocent people into a building full of innocent people under the name of Islam and still, Mosques in America will be safe from bulldozers.
I know it's not perfect but it's the struggle to live up to the words that define this country. If you throw them out, you will quickly find yourself no different from Russia, China, the Dutch (when they were an empire) etc.
Whatever you believe your country to be, you can rip it up and throw it away because do you know what is the difference between an America that DOESN'T believe in this stuff compared with all the countries that have come and gone? Not a damned thing. Look, compared to many parts of the developed world, America just isn't even that great anymore. But you know what makes America worth it? The fact that some jack asses can fly a plane full of innocent people into a building full of innocent people under the name of Islam and still, Mosques in America will be safe from bulldozers.
I know it's not perfect but it's the struggle to live up to the words that define this country. If you throw them out, you will quickly find yourself no different from Russia, China, the Dutch (when they were an empire) etc.
Rob Henderson
Banned
And that's exactly why we NEED to build this thing. Because we're NOT like them. Now, first of all, let's be clear about this. When I say "them" I'm speaking about the fringe extremists who attacked our great nation, not the every day, run of the mill Muslims. Because let's face it, most Muslims WOULDN'T have a problem with us building a YMCA over there. Can of Man has basically said everything I would've said.
mmarsh
Active member
You mean the media got its facts wrong, thats a shocker George! You know why its not a Mosque? A Mosque is always run by a Imam. There is no Imam, no call to prayer, no minarets all there is is a single room set aside prayer. The YMCA has the same thing. Do you call the YMCA a church?
As for that other right-wing self promoting cockroach sticking his nose in other peoples dirty business where it isn't appreciated and doesn't belong. Like Palin he is using an issue which is none of his goddamn business to boost his own candidacy amongst the loons like a fly on sh*t.
Remember Gingrich is one the those holy rollers that served his first wife divorce papers while she was recovering from cancer treatment so he could marry his mistress (second wife) and then cheated on her with his third wife. Real Class act this guy!
So I guess its fitting that these two slime balls would compete against each other for sewer-rat-of-the-year award. My apologies to all rodents everywhere.
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HokieMSG
Active member
Careful there mmarsh. A politicans personal life has nothing to do with politics. I hope that you did not decry Clintons indiscretions as a Republican witchhunt. If you have, shame on you. What about John Edwards? He did practically the same thing. Though he did get his mistress pregnant.
Do I think it was pretty low to do what Gingrich did? Yep. But don't forget that there are two sides to every story.
mmarsh
Active member
It was a Republican witch-hunt, but that doesn't mean what Clinton did was right. Same goes with Edwards, I don't support what he did either.
But there is a fundamental difference between them (and Republican Mark Sanford, just to show its not a GOP bash) and Gingrich.
What absolutely drives me crazy, are hypocritical politicians that preach morality, righteousness, and holier-than-thou godliness to others but don't feel obligated to actually heed their own sermons themselves. Gingrich is one of the biggest holier-than-thou moral hypocrits. When he spent his days feverishly trying to prove Clinton a monster and he spent his nights banging one of his aides behind his wifes back.
If Gingrich and Palin and the rest of the morals crowd would just learn to STFU than I wouldn't care what there personal indiscretions were. I don't think its appropriate for Gingrich to give sensitivity lessons to NYC when
A) its an affair thats really none of his business
B) when he showed no sensitivity when it came to the subject of his marriages
Same goes for Palin, who is that wench to lecture us abouts whats "right" given her multiple ethics violations investigations when she was governor?
But ultimately what really kills me is that these very hypocritical self-centered individuals are using this controversy to push their own political agenda. They don't give two wits about how it might affect NYC, only how it might affect their political careers. I challenge anyone to tell me I am wrong about that!
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I'd say that in any democracy, a party's main job is to get their man to become President and it is a politician's job to make sure he becomes the party's man (or woman).
But they do need to STFU about morality.
But they do need to STFU about morality.
mmarsh
Active member
Which is the entire problem with our political process. Both parties put winning an election above everything else.
Starting from 2006 Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi were perfectly happy to let Bush destroy the country because the worse the situation got the better the Democratic chances to win the 2008 White House were. I never agreed with that strategy and it backfired on them because although Obama won the White House the problems that he inherited have grown to a insurmountable level. Normally I'd say Obama would be a 1-term president already except the GOP is so obsessed in regaining power that they are inadvertently setting up Obama's reelection victory. (see below)....
The GOP thinks opposing Obama on everything will get them back in power. In the short term it might, but in the long term they are setting themselves up for a defeat because when 2012 comes around the public will see that "NO" is the only thing they have to offer. Remember as bad as Obama's polls are the GOP are even worse. By then they will they be able no longer able to claim the Democratic control of congress as an excuse. The GOP strategy is to grab power ASAP then come up with a policy as they go along.
What voters ultimately want is a president whose going to fix our problems. If the GOP really wants to win 2012 then they need to show the public that they DO have a plan, and their plan is better than Obama's. So far the plan is "I hate Obama". The very strategy that didn't work for Kerry in 2004.
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yeah, it's quite disgraceful.
The fact that they show up to work with the American flag pinned on their suit jacket sickens me.
But that is the system.
The fact that they show up to work with the American flag pinned on their suit jacket sickens me.
But that is the system.
HokieMSG
Active member
I could not agree more.
No argument here.
It seems to me that the GOP is following the Dem playbook. The dems were ones who started the "I hate" (insert political oppenent here). They hated, and still do, Bush. The main problem is that if you agree with what one party is doing, the other party will call you a Nazi.
Is it stupid and childish? Yes
Is it a way to deflect attention from the important issues? Absoultely.
On the morality issue here is my 2 cents.
If a politican is campaigning on it, they had better make sure they are practicing what they preach.
If not, ignore it.
Ultimately getting the whole story is imporant, this is NOT something that the media (Foxnews included) has been very diligent about. In their rush to report, news agencies have consistently failed to provide accurate and UNBIASED information. That is a sad reality that inhibits the average voter from making informed voting decisions.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Regardless of who's playbook it is, it really needs to stop. All I see is both sides doing their best to make sure that no progress is made while the other party is in power all the while praying for some kind of major disaster.
And as for news...
A bit like fast food I suppose. You sell unhealthy junk that makes people feel good... makes people feel like they're part of some kind of political movement at the press of a button all the while giving reassurance to whatever beliefs they have.
And as for news...
A bit like fast food I suppose. You sell unhealthy junk that makes people feel good... makes people feel like they're part of some kind of political movement at the press of a button all the while giving reassurance to whatever beliefs they have.
The latest developments
mmarsh
Active member
Very foolish of the ADL, they spent the last 50 years fighting bigotry and they prove that they can be just as bigoted as anyone else.
Still, they are not some self-serving politician using the issue to raise their big tent so they have a right to their opinion.
Basically they are advocating punishing all Muslims for the actions of a very small view ignoring the fact that their were innocent musilims killed on 9-11 as well.
Its collective punishment.
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The ADL needs to STFU.