Pakistan will be a failed state by 2015: CIA - Page 3




 
--
Boots
 
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
The CIA could be on the right track here, but the problem I am seeing is Pakistan's single most unifying factor: India.

What is to stop a charismatic leader from uniting and strengthening Pakistan?

It would seem easy enough to accomplish under the doctrine that "India will take us all over the moment we give them the chance." mentality. Fear and prejudice can be amazingly good glue to hold a country together.
Such thoughts are also surfacing in Pakistan:

Pakistan has anchored the concept of its national identity as well as an estimation of its powers in the historical memory of invaders and conquerors that held sway over the subcontinent for nearly a thousand years before the advent of the British Raj. These Persian, Afghan, Mughal and Central Asian adventurers, although Muslim, came to India not to fight holy wars but to plunder wealth or carve out their own kingdoms.Some invaders such as Nadir Shah and Abdali, made no distinction between the faithful and the rest. They raped and plundered them all. In the early 1920s, a handful of Muslim leaders used the slogan of Islam as a national identity to demand a separate homeland for the Muslim minorities of India. It was a corruption of history that led to the belief that a homogenous Islamic state would be superior to the rest of India. This helped gather strength for Pakistan, the promised land of the pure.

The writer is a freelance contributor based in Islamabad. Email: bilalkor@yahoo.com
http://www.jang-group.com/thenews/
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
but chinese gov are actually slowly turning democratic. so its actaully getting looser rather than tighter.
Wishful thinking.

Are you aware that people in China cannot migrate to another town or village or go to see relatives without a clearance from the auithorities and a pass? They of course say it is essential to ensure that the resources of the place when the person is going is not overburdened.

Now, is that democracy?

Letting foreign investments with Chinese participation in each venture being 51% and more is not democracy. It may endear the western industrialists since they can make money and it make get some favourable press, but it is not democracy.

How many strikes or labour dissatisfaction have you heard in China? How much of anger of the mine workers families did you hear after the initial report of the mine disaster? Surely, the Chinese are also human and they have feelings for their loved one. But you won't hear of all that so that a rosy picture emerges. Is tha democracy?

Everyone talks about the horrible North Korea. How much comes out about the real sufferings? So, in totalitarian regimes, its looks picture perfect.

Superficiality in vetting matters does not really give the actual picture.

Sexybeast wrote:

Quote:
do u think ppl in india are satisfied to have a 40-50 % unliteracy and not even more than 1000 U.S dollar average income? and the fighting and killing between different religous groups each year? and now tsunami?
I am afraid your facts on illiteracy is incorrect.

While it is immensely difficult to get news about the mishaps of a Communist dictatoship, yet the little that has percolated about Tibet and Xinjiang on the ethnic and religious violence actually does not warm the cockles of anyone's heart.

It is amusing that you wish to blame India for the tsunami and attribute it to the woes. Rather convoluted an example. Unless of course, rage makes you blind to logic.


Hope this is not a reserved colour.

Mods

Sorry about this back to back. Didn't know.
February 15th, 2005  
gingerbeard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordFish_13
Hi,

Quote:

Quote:
Darcia wrote:
Well actualy...we do know that the Communist goverment in China will in fact fall after 1989....
but did it?
Of Course it did ............. China is no longer Communist ........... just some pople who like called being communists..


Quote:
i certainly trust CIA's most predications as it is literally world's best intelligence agency, (maybe KGB was better but KGB uses lots of nasty tactics and it does not exsit anymore)
Are we talking about the Same Agency that said Iraq had WMD's ?

All these Inteligence Agency can do is gather facts form Sources analyse them and make a fasir enough prediction ............. the thing is we humans sometimes don't work According to predictions ..

Pakistan has too many Problems right now ............ a Rebelian in the Bluchistan province .......... Thes areas are taliban Strongholds..............problem is if they Go in with Fuill force danger is Bluchistan could turn into Another Bangladesh ............... pakistan can't afford another partation .



The Armed Rebelian is harming the Oil and gas Feilds there .............. and it is also hampring any sort of pipe line form Iran.....Kashmir is a well known problem.

and they always live with a mentalitty that India is coiming after them .......

Peace
-=SF_13=-
well if u r saying that, then china wasnt even communist before 1989. so the gov already fell earlier than that in ur eyes.

the predicting being done after 1989 means the chinese gov, so in fact, the predictiong is wrong anyway.
--
Boots
February 15th, 2005  
gingerbeard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pan
Quote:
but chinese gov are actually slowly turning democratic. so its actaully getting looser rather than tighter.
Wishful thinking.

Are you aware that people in China cannot migrate to another town or village or go to see relatives without a clearance from the auithorities and a pass? They of course say it is essential to ensure that the resources of the place when the person is going is not overburdened.

Now, is that democracy?

Letting foreign investments with Chinese participation in each venture being 51% and more is not democracy. It may endear the western industrialists since they can make money and it make get some favourable press, but it is not democracy.

How many strikes or labour dissatisfaction have you heard in China? How much of anger of the mine workers families did you hear after the initial report of the mine disaster? Surely, the Chinese are also human and they have feelings for their loved one. But you won't hear of all that so that a rosy picture emerges. Is tha democracy?

Everyone talks about the horrible North Korea. How much comes out about the real sufferings? So, in totalitarian regimes, its looks picture perfect.

Superficiality in vetting matters does not really give the actual picture.
well, i guess u dunno wat is called news at all then, recently a rich company sued a press because it said bad things about the rich company, suppose the rich company would bribe the judges etc.... but in fact the court decided that the press can continue to publish articles like that if u have evidence. now i read this from a british website, so dun accuse me having propaganda lol.

i never said china is a democracy, stop accusing me what i didnt said. u got to know india's corruption is much higher than china.

how much indian ppl complained that the indian gov is very slow to react and also how many families in india are angered by the disaster? a disaster will cause angry naturally.

and how much india has hide about hte rapes done by indian troopes in kashmir? it was found out by human rights org. it seems india is abusing human rights as well, not to mention there are plenty of other examples. a girl can get rape if she walk in teh presidental garden and raped by presidental guards without doing anything illegal.

at least the chinese gov proved to be very successful, singapor is idctatorship, look at it, its has the lowest corruption and highest income in the world, not to mention its the cleanest country.

alot of ppl change their view about the chinese gov after they visit the country. NK is more oppresive than the chinese gov. and also US pick on weak countries, how many times russia abuse human rights in chenchya? sigh.................... politics are like that.

i dun want to flame, but u got to know about china first before u talk about something u dun actually know well at all.

if u want to compare india and china, dun do it here, and also look at the big picture rather than posting small facts and disasters that happens in any country.
February 15th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Why did "China and democracy" come up anyways? Sounds like things wandered way off topic to me.
February 15th, 2005  
Xion
 
exactly my point godofthunder, read carefully and you will know who brought up that topic
also you will notice how many china topics already exist on this forum, and some ppl still dont wanna talk about anything else
all they want to do is start some childish immature flame wars and get interesting threads locked
they dont want to hear anything slightly wayward about china, but they are quick to downgrade other countries
February 15th, 2005  
gingerbeard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
exactly my point godofthunder, read carefully and you will know who brought up that topic
also you will notice how many china topics already exist on this forum, and some ppl still dont wanna talk about anything else
all they want to do is start some childish immature flame wars and get interesting threads locked
they dont want to hear anything slightly wayward about china, but they are quick to downgrade other countries
well if u read again, who started to flame up on china first? i only used china as an example to prove that predicting something is unrealiable.

u got to know some ppl need to learn how to take critism rather than just downgrade other countries.
February 15th, 2005  
gingerbeard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pan
The Chinese govt can't be pulled down by wishful thinking.

It requires a cultural change and an appetite for materialism.

Competition is wonderful in some way but it also leads to jealousies. The areas which will progress will be disliked by those areas which are left behind. Then there shall be dissensions and strife.

This dissension and strike will be fanned by those who wish to bring down the govt. Then and then only will there be a change in form. Of course this is but a very simplistic way of putting a complex issue into perspective.

So long as the Chinese govt keeps a tight rein, very little can happen.

The Chinese leadership understand all this. Tiennamen Square was just a trailer to the movie that can happen.

Globalisation and Liberalisation will be controlled and not allowed to run its course in a freewheeling manner.
so who started it first?
February 15th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Let me make a suggestion then: Lets all drop China from the discussion and discuss Pakistan instead.
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Gingerbread wrote:

Quote:
well, i guess u dunno wat is called news at all then, recently a rich company sued a press because it said bad things about the rich company, suppose the rich company would bribe the judges etc.... but in fact the court decided that the press can continue to publish articles like that if u have evidence. now i read this from a british website, so dun accuse me having propaganda lol.

i never said china is a democracy, stop accusing me what i didnt said. u got to know india's corruption is much higher than china.

how much indian ppl complained that the indian gov is very slow to react and also how many families in india are angered by the disaster? a disaster will cause angry naturally.

and how much india has hide about hte rapes done by indian troopes in kashmir? it was found out by human rights org. it seems india is abusing human rights as well, not to mention there are plenty of other examples. a girl can get rape if she walk in teh presidental garden and raped by presidental guards without doing anything illegal.

at least the chinese gov proved to be very successful, singapor is idctatorship, look at it, its has the lowest corruption and highest income in the world, not to mention its the cleanest country.

alot of ppl change their view about the chinese gov after they visit the country. NK is more oppresive than the chinese gov. and also US pick on weak countries, how many times russia abuse human rights in chenchya? sigh.................... politics are like that.

i dun want to flame, but u got to know about china first before u talk about something u dun actually know well at all.

if u want to compare india and china, dun do it here, and also look at the big picture rather than posting small facts and disasters that happens in any country.
I thought there was no posting on India vs China.

I will go by the rules.

However, this can be answered adequately is all that I will say.