Operation Phantom Fury, The Attack on Fallujah

Secrecy said:
“The policy of the rules of engagement authorise the Marines to use force when presented with a hostile act or hostile intent,” Miller said. “So they would have to be using force in self-defence, yes.”

Judging from that video, there was no possible hostile intent taken place from that man.

But do we have any video of the one's who did turn around and shoot our guys in the back? No. They might have looked axactly the same right before pulling out a grenage or pistol and taking some cheap shots at our troops.
 
The Marine will be dealt with under the rules of engagement.

It makes you wonder what value there really is in having embedded TV crews with the Marines.

Unfortunately incidents like this happen all the time in all theatres of war. I'm not saying it's right but war isn't a nice clean game with a simple set of rules to follow.

Reports state that the Marine had been wounded the previous day and was obviously suffering battle stress.

If we are going to the conduct war with trial by TV on every operation then the Marines may as well pack up and go home.

I am not suggesting that TV should not be there at all. It has a role to play in covering the war objectively.
 
My sentiments exactly 03USMC. This Marine should not be questioned from the comfort of a cushy seat in some student lounge. I know that if I were in the same position and if I suspected any danger, I would not put my fellow soldiers' lives at risk either.
I agree with you aussiejohn, things like this do happen in all wars. The only difference here is that there was a camera this time.
 
Here's something I know... if the Iraqis didn't use their dead and wounded as booby traps, that Marine probably wouldn't have opened fire.
 
the iraqi reblels are pretty stupid, they should empoly hit and run tactic, concentrate their forces aginist small amount of american troops...

and they lost alot of equipment and soldiers, what a pity.....
 
Precision said:
the iraqi reblels are pretty stupid, they should empoly hit and run tactic, concentrate their forces aginist small amount of american troops...

and they lost alot of equipment and soldiers, what a pity.....


Yeah it's a cryin shame ain't it. :lol:


Semper Fi
 
Precision said:
they have pretty stupid leaders thats for sure.. i mean cmon, at least concentrate their forces and fight with strategy

If they concentrate their forces that will only make our job easier. And how do you know that they did not concentrate their forces in Falluja, nobody really knows how many insurgents are in Iraq.

They are using strategy buddy, their strategy is to use terror tactics to achieve their goals, which like it or not can be very successful.
 
Ever been in Combat Stud?

If you haven't you've got no business questioning the actions of this Marine or any other service member with boots on the ground there.

Thats not up to me to or you or any service member in the US military to decide. It's up to this Marine's responsibility to decide. It's his business. But in my eyes, he made a mistake.


The Marine will be dealt with under the rules of engagement.

It makes you wonder what value there really is in having embedded TV crews with the Marines.

Unfortunately incidents like this happen all the time in all theatres of war. I'm not saying it's right but war isn't a nice clean game with a simple set of rules to follow.

Reports state that the Marine had been wounded the previous day and was obviously suffering battle stress.

If we are going to the conduct war with trial by TV on every operation then the Marines may as well pack up and go home.

I am not suggesting that TV should not be there at all. It has a role to play in covering the war objectively.

Correct.
 
Secrecy said:
Thats not up to me to or you or any service member in the US military to decide. It's up to this Marine's responsibility to decide. It's his business. But in my eyes, he made a mistake.

It's not me who seems to be judging him . He made a mistake? How do come to that conclusion? From 2 minutes and 30 seconds of video?

Glad to see college students are still capable of passing judgement.
 
This vedio did a bad work to the Iraqis.

Killing of wounded man in Fallujah mosque infuriates Iraqis

BAGHDAD, Nov. 17 (Xinhuanet,by Muhsen Hussein, Saalan Ahmed, Laith Salman) -- Most Iraqis were infuriated when they saw an American soldier killing an unarmed injured Iraqi in a mosque in Fallujah during the ongoing offensive on the city.In spite of the ruthless killing of the injured man, Iraqis appeared not surprised at the act, and many said "what is concealed is more important." .....

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-11/18/content_2231411.htm
 
It is my feeling that that Marine will not be brought up on any charges because he did nothing wrong. Anyone in his situation would have done the same thing in the unpredictable life and death atmosphere of a combat situation.
As to the "outrage" about this, it should be directed at those who chose to use the mosque as a fighting position. The voices should be ringing out from the minarets denouncing such action by the "insurgents" instead of encouraging it.
 
You see, don't you guys realize that the video was politically bad for the US's? This is not about the "Battlefield". This controversy is debated primarily in the political arena.

He made a mistake? How do come to that conclusion? From 2 minutes and 30 seconds of video?

Yes he did made a mistake. The marine was quite jumpy and afraid therefore he mistakingly shot the unarmed Iraqis. The logic is quite simple. The marines thought there was a potential threat but it have been claimed that there were no potential threat. Well, that was obviously a mistake. Besides, you know that everybody is not perfect. But, that is still not the best excuse to avoid penalty.

And also, 2 minutes and 30 seconds video can do a lot of damage man. There is a nasty propaganda war going on and this tape is another powerful weapon of persuading the international public opinion. It looks like the US is losing this kind of Propaganda war.

Glad to see college students are still capable of passing judgement.

Several College Students fought in combat in the past. And most importantly they felt an obligation to serve in the armed forces once they came out of high school. And please don't generalize.
 
Secrecy said:
You see, don't you guys realize that the video was politically bad for the US's? This is not about the "Battlefield". This controversy is debated primarily in the political arena.

He made a mistake? How do come to that conclusion? From 2 minutes and 30 seconds of video?

Yes he did made a mistake. The marine was quite jumpy and afraid therefore he mistakingly shot the unarmed Iraqis. The logic is quite simple. The marines thought there was a potential threat but it have been claimed that there were no potential threat. Well, that was obviously a mistake. Besides, you know that everybody is not perfect. But, that is still not the best excuse to avoid penalty.

And also, 2 minutes and 30 seconds video can do a lot of damage man. There is a nasty propaganda war going on and this tape is another powerful weapon of persuading the international public opinion. It looks like the US is losing this kind of Propaganda war.

Glad to see college students are still capable of passing judgement.

Several College Students fought in combat in the past. And most importantly they felt an obligation to serve in the armed forces once they came out of high school. And please don't generalize.


I am going to say this with as much decorum as I can muster at this point
I am not concerned about the political ramifications in this incident. The potential ramifications would come for the most part from groups that support these "insurgents" in the first place.

My concern is for this Marine. He did his job. He followed his Training. He followed his Rules of Engagement he believed Hostile Intent was present.
For you to say that punishment is warranted because of a supposed "mistake" is tantamount to saying lets hammer him because he did the job he was sent to do.

From where you sit you cannot possibley fathom what it takes to make the decision that that young Marine had to make in the the time he had to make it.

Thank God that there are still young men out their who are willing to put themselves in harms way. So that you may question their conduct from safety.
 
This is my final assertion for this matter because it is becoming off topic in this thread.

This video is no big deal as a matter of fact. It's war, and I can't believe is discussed so often. This is merely a "controversy" and will be forgotten as time gone by. However, for the Iraqi people, I doubt they will forget this.

From where you sit you cannot possibley fathom what it takes to make the decision that that young Marine had to make in the the time he had to make it.

Ok, your implying that if you think...you die.

Thank God that there are still young men out their who are willing to put themselves in harms way. So that you may question their conduct from safety.

Putting a soldier's at risk is something not to thank for. I don't question their conduct, I only hope that stuff like this won't ever happen again.
 
FlyingFrog said:
This vedio did a bad work to the Iraqis.

Killing of wounded man in Fallujah mosque infuriates Iraqis

BAGHDAD, Nov. 17 (Xinhuanet,by Muhsen Hussein, Saalan Ahmed, Laith Salman) -- Most Iraqis were infuriated when they saw an American soldier killing an unarmed injured Iraqi in a mosque in Fallujah during the ongoing offensive on the city.In spite of the ruthless killing of the injured man, Iraqis appeared not surprised at the act, and many said "what is concealed is more important." .....

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-11/18/content_2231411.htm

Frog, at least the Marine didn't saw his head off with a dull knife. Bad way to go, sort like being eaten alive feet first I would imagine.
 
DTop said:
It is my feeling that that Marine will not be brought up on any charges because he did nothing wrong. Anyone in his situation would have done the same thing in the unpredictable life and death atmosphere of a combat situation.
As to the "outrage" about this, it should be directed at those who chose to use the mosque as a fighting position. The voices should be ringing out from the minarets denouncing such action by the "insurgents" instead of encouraging it.

No kidding, these insurgents keep trying to hide behind their religion for protection, they know that we will think carefully before attacking a Mosque, but now they also know that we will attack it when necessary, we will respect the Muslims, but we will not grant them immunity from their actions. We might not be in this position if Bush had not called Iraq a Crusade, which was a very poor choice of words, why don't we just walk in with a white cross painted on our helmets, on the side of tanks. I respect all religions, for the most part, but it is funny how much trouble that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are causing, they all worship the same god, all believe that Jesus existed, the Jews say he was an ordinary guy, the Muslims say he was a prophet, and the Christians believe that he is the son of god, all three believe in a form of Heaven, and all three regard Jerusalem as a holy city, yet there religions that have so much in common are the causes of so many of the world's conflicts, disputes, and general hatred.
 
i'd like to know who told Bush to even mention the word Crusade. i can guarantee it wasn't an intel officer or military advisor who came up with that. i'm going to have to bet that it was some hot shot PR person that thought it'd sound good on TV. but even if Bush didn't say Crusade, i'm sure we'd still have similar religious issues in the area. his vocabulary only seemed to reinforce what many of them might have been thinking.
 
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