Only Two More Popes Left !?!?!

gladius

Active member
I guess we got a new pope recently, I was hoping he'd be a young guy but I guess not. Why you ask was I hoping he would be a young guy?, you'll find out as you read. Whether you believe it or not, it's still pretty interesting.

Some of you may have heard of the prophecies of St. Malachy (11th Century), he had wrote down a list of all the popes from his day forward, 112 in all. He included a brief phrase on each pope which happened to match certain characteristics of that pope exactly. And according to him there are only two popes left. :shock:

Here are some examples of his Papal Prophecies, let's go back as far as five popes to show you what I mean. I'll give the breif description about them which were written some 900 years before they reigned, the names of the popes, after which is the description that you may find uncannilly accurate.

"Pastor en Nauta" - Pastor and mariner = JOHN XXIII. 1958 - 1963

He is consider one of the most beloved popes in history, he was close to the people like a pastor to his flock.

Before he was elected pope he was the Patriarch of Venice, a city well known for its links to the sea and sailors (a maratime city).

When he convoked the Ecumenical Council in 1962, John chose two symbols for the council badge-a cross and a ship.

"Flos Florum"- Flower of Flowers = PAUL VI. 1963-1978

His coat of arms had three iris blossoms.

"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

"De Labore Solis" Of the Solar Eclipse, or From the Toil of the Sun = JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005

He was a native of Krakow Poland, the city where Copernicus strived for years to prove his (then heretical) theory of how the earth revolved aroun the sun.

He was born on May 18, 1920. On that date there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe.

On the day of his burial a solar eclipse could be seen over North and South America.

(Europe, N. & S. America are also where most Catholic Christians reside, if this has any bearing to the eclipeses)

" Gloria Olivae," or Glory of the Olive = Pope Benedict XVI. 2005-Present

This prophecy has already been partially if not fully fullfilled.

The new pope took the name Benedict, from St. Benedict. The order dedicated to St. Benedict is The Benedictine Order, is also know as the Olivetans... hence the Glory of the Olive.

There maybe other stuff that can can happen that relates to this, that are associated with the olives, so we'll see.

...And the last pope, according to St. Malachy...

"Petrus Romanus" or Peter the Roman = ???

The fate that awaits Peter the Roman is not so good.

According to St. Malachy and as well as other corresponding reliable prophecies which line up with what St. Malachy is saying, the fate that awaits him is this...

Peter the Roman reigns through many tribulations.

Rome (the Vatican) is invaded, destroyed and burned to the ground.

Peter is forced out of Rome and either dies in exile or in captivity.

At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.
 
"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

Another one you could add is that with 33 days he reigned one month or only one moon cycle.

Yes, I've heard this one before. I haven't checked them all myself, but from what I've heard. St. Malachy got them all right for all this time.

Of course, it could mean that this is the end of the line for Popes under this form of Roman Cathalocism. It may be that the church is so radically changed that they give the new leader another name than "Pope". Who knows?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. If it's going to happen it's beyond my powers and it could also be that Malachy was misinterpreted or even they lost his writtings on the next few hundred years of Popes.
 
At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.

Umm so you are serious about this Malachy character?

Sorry but all that springs to mind is a saying that my grandparents generation used a lot and that is "what a load of old malachy".

However I did stumble apon this:
The 2nd to last pope is identified by Malachy as "Gloria Olivae" - "glory of the olive". (Some prophets believe this pope will take Leo XVI for his name and will bring peace between Israelis and Arabs) St Malachy predicts that Pope John Paul II's successor will be an active peace-making member of the religious hierarchy. But he will die in 2008 with his work unfinished and the next pope - called Peter of Rome ("Peterus Romanus") - will rule until the Apocalypse in 2020.

So as with most prophecy's there are several interpretations out there which kind of puts an element of doubt into the process.

Besides arent we supposed to be wiped out in 2006 in the Bible code which I suspect has a bit better shot at being correct than the Japanese Nostradamus interpreter who had the world ending in July 1999 and hell if that fails heres a bunch of other events that are meant wipe us out.

http://www.weird-websites.com/justweird/endofworld.htm
 
Wikipedia has some good information on this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes
The following is just a small part of the article there.
Wikipedia said:
Pope Pius X (Ignis ardens)
The motto means "ardent" or "burning fire". The pope was known for his great personal piety and strong devotion to the church, advocating reforms such as the codification of Canon law, daily communion and the Gregorian chant in the Catholic liturgy.

Pope Benedict XV (Religio depopulata)
The motto means "religion laid waste". During Pope Benedict XV's reign, two significant events occurred: World War I, which killed 15 million people in Europe, and the October Revolution in Russia, which established the atheist Soviet Union.


Pope Pius XI (Fides intrepida)
The motto means "intrepid faith". This pope released the encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge which condemned Nazi racism and also signed agreements with fascist Italy which, among other things, gave the Vatican sovereignty, established the pope as head of state, and added 700 million Lire to the church coffers.


Pope Pius XII (Pastor angelicus)
The motto means "an angelic shepherd". This pope was known to be very mystical, and it was believed that he received visions. Whenever he telephoned someone the recipient would always kneel. His writings added greatly to understanding of Catholic beliefs and church doctrine.


Pope John XXIII (Pastor et Nauta)
Prior to his election he was patriarch of Venice, which is a maritime city, famous for is waterways and gondolas.

According Peter Bander in The Prophecies of Malachy (TAN Books and Publisher, 1969) during the conclave which was to elect John XXIII, a certain Cardinal from the United States, (Cardinal Spellman of New York) evidently having taken Malachy's forecast that the next pope would be "pastor and mariner" literally, rented a boat, filled it with sheep and sailed up and down the Tiber.

The anti-pope Pius XIII of the true Catholic Church has also claimed to be Pastor et Nauta, as their group believes that his last valid predecessor was Pius XII. He has used justifications including his residence in the United States, which is across the Atlantic Ocean from Rome.


Pope Paul VI (Flos florum)
Pope Paul VI, who reigned from 1963 - 1978, is described in the prophecies as Flos florum (flower of flowers). His personal arms bore three fleurs-de-lis, the well-used symbol in flags and heraldry used to represent the French monarchy. "Fleurs-de-lis" literally means "flower of lily". However, this disregards all the other papal arms that had flowers on them as well.


Pope John Paul I (De medietate Lunae)
De medietate Lunae translates to "of the half-moon". It could also be interpreted as de media aetate lunae, meaning of the average age of the moon. Albino Luciani, who later became Pope John Paul I, was born in Canale d'Ogardo, diocese of Belluno (beautiful moon). He was elected on 26 August 1978, the day after the moon reached its last quarter, and reigned for 33 days, approximately five days longer than a lunar cycle. He died the day before the new moon. However, a much simpler explanation might be that he was born on the day of the half moon: on 17 October 1912, the moon was in its first quarter. Others point to the translation of his name before becoming pope, Albino Luciani, or "white light".


Pope John Paul II (De labore Solis)
The prophetic motto corresponding to Pope John Paul II is De labore Solis, which literally means "Of the labour of the sun", but "labores solis" also means solar eclipse (http://www.sunsite.ubc.ca/LatinDictionary/HyperText/l.html). Karol Wojtyla, who later became Pope John Paul II was born on 18 May 1920 during a partial solar eclipse over the Indian Ocean, and buried on 8 April 2005, the day of a rare "hybrid" eclipse (http://www.astronomy.com/default.aspx?c=a&id=3044) over the south-western Pacific and South America. He might also be seen to be the fruit of the intercession of the Woman Clothed with the Sun labouring in Revelation 12 (because of his devotion to the Virgin Mary).

It has also been suggested that the associated Latin phrase could also be a cryptic term for de borealis sol, of the northern sun, being a luminary coming from Poland to the north; this would be very ungrammatical Latin, however. It has also so happened that an abnormally high number of sunspots have been recorded throughout all the many years of his pontificate. Another interpretation points simply to the sun rising in the east and his being the first Pope from Eastern Europe. Yet another is that he was the first Pope to go around the world, as the Sun does. A further theory is that the combination of labore and solis cryptically refers to "the sun of the workers", i.e., the star of communism, with John Paul being the only pope to have spent much of his life under a communist regime.

Pope Benedict XVI (Gloria Olivae)
Gloria Olivae, glory of the olive, is the next phrase following De labore Solis. Prior to the papal conclave, this motto led to speculation that the next pontiff would be from the Order of Saint Benedict, whose symbols include the olive branch. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, selected in April 2005, is not a Benedictine, but did pick Benedict XVI as his regnal name, which might be regarded as a fulfillment of this prophecy.

It must be noted that, probably thanks to the Prophecy, the betting site PaddyPower (http://www.paddypower.com) accurately predicted that Benedict would have the highest odds of being the future papal name.

Yet there can also be a different meaning. Pope Benedict XVI had his birthday on 16 April and on that day is celebrated the feast of Saint Benedict Joseph Labre (26 March 1748 - 16 April 1783), also known as the Holy Pilgrim. His first name was already Joseph and together with Benedict, which he has now assumed, his Christian namesake is now complete. Moreover, the Order of St Benedict is also known as that of the Olivetans.

Yet another possible interpretation might be that, like his predecessor - who spoke of the Church needing to 'breathe with both lungs' again - Pope Benedict XVI has a special desire to reunite the eastern orthodox churches, separated since 1054, with the Roman Church. The olive can of course be taken as a symbol of Greece, and hence the Greek Orthodox Church (and - by extension - the Russian Orthodox Church which grew out of it). During John Paul II's funeral Mass, with a large delegation of bishops from the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches present, Cardinal Ratzinger, the celebrant, in the portion of the Eucharistic Prayer where the union of the Church with its bishops, priests and faithful is invoked, inserted a special mention of the Orthodox bishops present. This was an extraordinary innovation, considering Rome regards these bishops as schismatic. If indeed it turns out that reunion with the 'olive' churches is achieved during Benedict's pontificate (the last time, if only briefly, was at the Council of Florence, the seventeenth Ecumenical Council, 1438-1445), it would truly be a glorious achievement worthy of St Malachy's phrase, 'Gloria Olivae'.

Another interpretation was that Gloria Olivae would promote world peace, as symbolised by the olive branch. In a general audience on 27 April 2005, Benedict XVI explained that he chose his regnal name as a link to Benedict XV, Religio depopulata, and that "In his footsteps I place my ministry, in the service of reconciliation and harmony between peoples, profoundly convinced that the great good of peace is above all a gift of God, a fragile and precious gift to be invoked, safeguarded and constructed, day after day and with everyone's contribution".

There had already been, before the election of the pope, a concomitance in two unrelated events occurring on the opening date of the 2005 Conclave. First, a Turkish presidential candidate won overnight the northern Cyprus elections favouring re-unification peace talks of the two sectors; the flag of Cyprus has two inter-locking olive branches in it. Secondly, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was forced to resign as a result of pressure from the leftist opposition called l'Ulivo.

Clemente Domínguez y Gómez, the late self-proclaimed Pope of the Palmarian Catholic Church also used to claim that he was the glory of the olive.


Petrus Romanus -- Peter II
The longest and final motto reads, "In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oues in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis ciuitas septicollis diruetur, & Iudex tremêdus iudicabit populum suum. Finis." (During the final persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep in many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed, and the terrible Judge will judge his people. The End.) According to some sources, this was not a part of the original prophecy but was added in the early 19th Century by a publisher.

Two men claiming to be Pope Peter II have emerged in recent years, probably inspired by this motto.

There are several interpretations regarding the last Popes listed by St. Malachy taken by those who believe the prophecies:

Regarding whether additional Popes, not listed by St. Malachy occur between Gloria Olivae and Petrus Romanus the following differing views are held:
Gloria Olivae is immediately followed by Petrus Romanus.
Because no number is assigned to Petrus Romanus, he and Gloria Olivae might be one and the same pope.
Because no number is assigned to Petrus Romanus, any number of popes could intervene between these two popes.
Regarding whether the Papacy ends with Petrus Romanus, the following differing views are held:
Petrus Romanus will be the final Pope. The end of his papacy will mark either the end of the papacy, the end of the Roman Catholic Church, and/or the end of this world (Apocalypse | End of the world (religion) | Armageddon | Eschatology).
There will be additional Popes following Petrus Romanus, about which Malachy did not write. There is also the possibility that these additional popes might be considered antipopes, which could justify their omission in St. Malachy's eyes.
 
MontyB said:
Umm so you are serious about this Malachy character?

Sorry but all that springs to mind is a saying that my grandparents generation used a lot and that is "what a load of old malachy".

Its malarchy not malachy.

Since you like to insult me by calling what I beleive in "a load of malarchy", you need to provide proof. The fact that you are biased towards this does not constitute proof.

The evidence here stands on it own merit.


However I did stumble apon this:
The 2nd to last pope is identified by Malachy as "Gloria Olivae" - "glory of the olive". (Some prophets believe this pope will take Leo XVI for his name and will bring peace between Israelis and Arabs) St Malachy predicts that Pope John Paul II's successor will be an active peace-making member of the religious hierarchy. But he will die in 2008 with his work unfinished and the next pope - called Peter of Rome ("Peterus Romanus") - will rule until the Apocalypse in 2020.

So as with most prophecy's there are several interpretations out there which kind of puts an element of doubt into the process.

This is simply other peoples interpretation of Malachy prophecy, NOT what Mal said himself, they simply interpreted wrong (they maybe right later). Once its fullfilled then all is moot. Peoples different or wrong interpretation of Mal's prophecies doesn't negate it in any way.

The fact the the latest prophecy was fullfilled in a way that no one expected gives even more credibility to Malachy.


Besides arent we supposed to be wiped out in 2006 in the Bible code which I suspect has a bit better shot at being correct than the Japanese Nostradamus interpreter who had the world ending in July 1999 and h**l if that fails heres a bunch of other events that are meant wipe us out.

http://www.weird-websites.com/justweird/endofworld.htm

Anyone can make prophecies, it doesn't mean they will come true.

There are tons of kooks out there, but once in a while there is one who isn't. St. Malachy prophecies have come true on a consistent basis over a period of time.

You can deny it or call this stuff malarchy but the proof is right here.
 
I'm an evangelical chrishtan and we're taught to not believe the Catoholics(no offense anyone). But this guy was right all the time! Now thats a strange coinceidence, or not a coincedince at all.
 
Its malarchy not malachy.

Since you like to insult me by calling what I beleive in "a load of malarchy", you need to provide proof. The fact that you are biased towards this does not constitute proof.

The evidence here stands on it own merit.

While it is true I dont believe in prophecies I dont believe there was any intentional insult in there as I stand by the statement that his name bears a striking similarity to that of the statement (spelling errors aside) "what a load of old malarchy" which here is translated here into meaning "you are pulling my leg".
Now I am assuming that statement has an origin then prophecies IF proven to be false would be a very early example and possible origin for my statement.

The argument against:
The most common school of thought against these prophecies is that they are a 16th century Jesuit hoax as found and explained at this website
http://ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/smiesel_popesproph_apr05.asp


Now before this degenerates into a full blown religious argument, I believe that people have a right to believe and practice whatever religion they like as long as they dont try and force them on others and that all religions are equal because of that. However I am not a religious person I am at best an agnostic bordering on atheism that is I dont discount the possibility of a god but I lean toward the probability that there isnt one so I will always argue from a purely mathematical point of view and discount faith.


So with that lets try and discuss this without the assumed insults, you have given us the prophecies I have replied with one of numerous (basic web search) bits of data that says they are a 16th century hoax now you get to disprove my data.
 
MontyB said:
While it is true I dont believe in prophecies I dont believe there was any intentional insult in there as I stand by the statement that his name bears a striking similarity to that of the statement (spelling errors aside) "what a load of old malarchy" which here is translated here into meaning "you are pulling my leg".
Now I am assuming that statement has an origin then prophecies IF proven to be false would be a very early example and possible origin for my statement.

[qoute]The argument against:
The most common school of thought against these prophecies is that they are a 16th century Jesuit hoax as found and explained at this website
http://ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/smiesel_popesproph_apr05.asp


Now before this degenerates into a full blown religious argument, I believe that people have a right to believe and practice whatever religion they like as long as they dont try and force them on others and that all religions are equal because of that. However I am not a religious person I am at best an agnostic bordering on atheism that is I dont discount the possibility of a god but I lean toward the probability that there isnt one so I will always argue from a purely mathematical point of view and discount faith.


So with that lets try and discuss this without the assumed insults, you have given us the prophecies I have replied with one of numerous (basic web search) bits of data that says they are a 16th century hoax now you get to disprove my data.

Like I said before the evidence stands on its own merit.

It has already proven itself regardless of who wrote it, by fullfilling what was written after it was revealed (after the 16th century), including events that are beyond human interferance.

If it is a hoax, then the hoax itself has predicted the coming popes accurately, as seen in the examples I gave before. That's pretty darn good for a hoax.

Besides the link you provided does not give a very strong argument at all. The author is saying its a hoax but other than providing any real data it doesn't show anything significant. She was saying it was only accurate before the cut off, but thats simply not the case, as the evidence has showed. Besides the whole article had little to do with Malachy at all.

The evidence still stands, the predictions have been accuratly fullfilled including this last one.

Seeing the evidence for what it is, regardless of bias, is the basis for any thruthful conclusion. It may not be inside the box of any physical science, but that does not mean its not true.
 
gladius said:
I guess we got a new pope recently, I was hoping he'd be a young guy but I guess not. Why you ask was I hoping he would be a young guy?, you'll find out as you read. Whether you believe it or not, it's still pretty interesting.

Some of you may have heard of the prophecies of St. Malachy (11th Century), he had wrote down a list of all the popes from his day forward, 112 in all. He included a brief phrase on each pope which happened to match certain characteristics of that pope exactly. And according to him there are only two popes left. :shock:

Here are some examples of his Papal Prophecies, let's go back as far as five popes to show you what I mean. I'll give the breif description about them which were written some 900 years before they reigned, the names of the popes, after which is the description that you may find uncannilly accurate.

"Pastor en Nauta" - Pastor and mariner = JOHN XXIII. 1958 - 1963

He is consider one of the most beloved popes in history, he was close to the people like a pastor to his flock.

Before he was elected pope he was the Patriarch of Venice, a city well known for its links to the sea and sailors (a maratime city).

When he convoked the Ecumenical Council in 1962, John chose two symbols for the council badge-a cross and a ship.

"Flos Florum"- Flower of Flowers = PAUL VI. 1963-1978

His coat of arms had three iris blossoms.

"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

"De Labore Solis" Of the Solar Eclipse, or From the Toil of the Sun = JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005

He was a native of Krakow Poland, the city where Copernicus strived for years to prove his (then heretical) theory of how the earth revolved aroun the sun.

He was born on May 18, 1920. On that date there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe.

On the day of his burial a solar eclipse could be seen over North and South America.

(Europe, N. & S. America are also where most Catholic Christians reside, if this has any bearing to the eclipeses)

" Gloria Olivae," or Glory of the Olive = Pope Benedict XVI. 2005-Present

This prophecy has already been partially if not fully fullfilled.

The new pope took the name Benedict, from St. Benedict. The order dedicated to St. Benedict is The Benedictine Order, is also know as the Olivetans... hence the Glory of the Olive.

There maybe other stuff that can can happen that relates to this, that are associated with the olives, so we'll see.

...And the last pope, according to St. Malachy...

"Petrus Romanus" or Peter the Roman = ???

The fate that awaits Peter the Roman is not so good.

According to St. Malachy and as well as other corresponding reliable prophecies which line up with what St. Malachy is saying, the fate that awaits him is this...

Peter the Roman reigns through many tribulations.

Rome (the Vatican) is invaded, destroyed and burned to the ground.

Peter is forced out of Rome and either dies in exile or in captivity.

At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.

I think this prophecies are too general to give them credit. You could find similarities with this phrases on everybody.

- Pastor and mariner: he loved sailing

- Flower of flowers: he had a big garden

- From the half moon: he borned,appointed or dead in a half moon night.

- Toil of the sun:....................................

- Glory of the olive: he always had bread with olive oil for breakfast.

- Peter the roman: it could mean so many things...
 
staurofilakes said:
gladius said:
I guess we got a new pope recently, I was hoping he'd be a young guy but I guess not. Why you ask was I hoping he would be a young guy?, you'll find out as you read. Whether you believe it or not, it's still pretty interesting.

Some of you may have heard of the prophecies of St. Malachy (11th Century), he had wrote down a list of all the popes from his day forward, 112 in all. He included a brief phrase on each pope which happened to match certain characteristics of that pope exactly. And according to him there are only two popes left. :shock:

Here are some examples of his Papal Prophecies, let's go back as far as five popes to show you what I mean. I'll give the breif description about them which were written some 900 years before they reigned, the names of the popes, after which is the description that you may find uncannilly accurate.

"Pastor en Nauta" - Pastor and mariner = JOHN XXIII. 1958 - 1963

He is consider one of the most beloved popes in history, he was close to the people like a pastor to his flock.

Before he was elected pope he was the Patriarch of Venice, a city well known for its links to the sea and sailors (a maratime city).

When he convoked the Ecumenical Council in 1962, John chose two symbols for the council badge-a cross and a ship.

"Flos Florum"- Flower of Flowers = PAUL VI. 1963-1978

His coat of arms had three iris blossoms.

"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

"De Labore Solis" Of the Solar Eclipse, or From the Toil of the Sun = JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005

He was a native of Krakow Poland, the city where Copernicus strived for years to prove his (then heretical) theory of how the earth revolved aroun the sun.

He was born on May 18, 1920. On that date there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe.

On the day of his burial a solar eclipse could be seen over North and South America.

(Europe, N. & S. America are also where most Catholic Christians reside, if this has any bearing to the eclipeses)

" Gloria Olivae," or Glory of the Olive = Pope Benedict XVI. 2005-Present

This prophecy has already been partially if not fully fullfilled.

The new pope took the name Benedict, from St. Benedict. The order dedicated to St. Benedict is The Benedictine Order, is also know as the Olivetans... hence the Glory of the Olive.

There maybe other stuff that can can happen that relates to this, that are associated with the olives, so we'll see.

...And the last pope, according to St. Malachy...

"Petrus Romanus" or Peter the Roman = ???

The fate that awaits Peter the Roman is not so good.

According to St. Malachy and as well as other corresponding reliable prophecies which line up with what St. Malachy is saying, the fate that awaits him is this...

Peter the Roman reigns through many tribulations.

Rome (the Vatican) is invaded, destroyed and burned to the ground.

Peter is forced out of Rome and either dies in exile or in captivity.

At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.

I think this prophecies are too general to give them credit. You could find similarities with this phrases on everybody.

- Pastor and mariner: he loved sailing

- Flower of flowers: he had a big garden

- From the half moon: he borned,appointed or dead in a half moon night.

- Toil of the sun:....................................

- Glory of the olive: he always had bread with olive oil for breakfast.

- Peter the roman: it could mean so many things...

This is pretty much the most common argument against these prophecies, the anti-prophecy theory is that the book was written in the 1600s because this is when it surfaced and they are extremely accurate up until that point after the 1600 the prophecies become more "generic" so that it was fairly easy to make them apply to the pope of the time.
Essentially up to the 1600s it is a history book and after that its a Nostradamus style "general" statement book.
 
staurofilakes said:
I think this prophecies are too general to give them credit. You could find similarities with this phrases on everybody.

- Pastor and mariner: he loved sailing

- Flower of flowers: he had a big garden

- From the half moon: he borned,appointed or dead in a half moon night.

- Toil of the sun:....................................

- Glory of the olive: he always had bread with olive oil for breakfast.

- Peter the roman: it could mean so many things...

These are the generalities you gave. But thats not how it turned out did it.

You are basing it on personal habits which anyone could fill, that's not the case here.

Some of the descriptions were beyond human control. It's not about their personal habits thats being described as "if someone loved sailing", if it were so then anybody could fit the prophecies or make themsleves fit into them, if it were that easy then these prophecies would'nt count for much.

MontyB said:
This is pretty much the most common argument against these prophecies, the anti-prophecy theory is that the book was written in the 1600s because this is when it surfaced and they are extremely accurate up until that point after the 1600 the prophecies become more "generic" so that it was fairly easy to make them apply to the pope of the time.
Essentially up to the 1600s it is a history book and after that its a Nostradamus style "general" statement book.

To disprove what you are saying here are some of the predictions about the earlier (pre-1600) popes. You can see they they are about the same in accuracy as the present day ones.

Celestine II (1143-1144) 1 Ex castro Tyberis (from a castle on the Tiber)
Was born in Citta di Castello, Toscany, on the shores of the Tiber

Innocent III (1198-1216) 15 Comes signatus (signed Count)
Descendant of the noble Signy, later called Segni family

Nicholas IV (1288-1292) 31 Ex eremo celsus (elevated from a hermit)
Prior to his election he was a hermit in the monastery of Pouilles

John XXII (1316-1334) 35 De sutore osseo (of the cobbler of Osseo)
Family name Ossa, son of a shoe-maker

Benedict XII (1334-1342) 37 Frigidus Abbas (cold friar)
He was a priest in the monastery of Frontfroid (coldfront)

Callistus III (1455-1458) 55 Bos pascens (grazing ox)
Alphonse Borgia's arms sported a golden grazing ox


Here are some of the others after the 1600's, as you can see about the same in accuracy.


Gregory XVI (1831-1846) 100 De balneis hetruriæ (bath of Etruria)
Prior to his election he was member of an order founded by Saint
Romuald, at Balneo, in Etruria, present day Toscany.

Benedict XV (1914-1922) 104 Religio depopulata (Religion laid waste)
This Pope reigned during the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia which store the establishment of Communism.

In fact the 20th century popes have fit the descriptions even more than even the pre-1600 popes, most in events beyond human control. If it were as simple as where he was from, then it could be said that he was elected because of where he is from. The hoax case for this is pretty weak.

(off the subject but, as far as Nostradamus is concerened--yes his statements are generalities. However only when read in conjuction to his letter to King Henry they are no longer generalties but specific information, most people don't really know this. I don't the two are mean to be read seperate, hence the generalities, but I don't really want to get into this right now.)


7.62 said:
I'm an evangelical chrishtan and we're taught to not believe the Catoholics(no offense anyone). But this guy was right all the time! Now thats a strange coinceidence, or not a coincedince at all.

I know what you mean, I 'm not Catholic either. But when its right its right.

Charge 7 said:
Of course, it could mean that this is the end of the line for Popes under this form of Roman Cathalocism. It may be that the church is so radically changed that they give the new leader another name than "Pope". Who knows?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. If it's going to happen it's beyond my powers and it could also be that Malachy was misinterpreted or even they lost his writtings on the next few hundred years of Popes.

You maybe right since that there would be more popes, since there is a contraversy over the last pope "Peter the Roman" since some manuascripts don't included it.

However I don't know why it would be added since its adding contradicts official Catholic teachings about the whats to come. Perhaps it was withheld for that reason? I don't we'll see, like you said our powers to control.
 
7.62 said:
I'm an evangelical chrishtan and we're taught to not believe the Catoholics(no offense anyone). But this guy was right all the time! Now thats a strange coinceidence, or not a coincedince at all.
I'm not sure that that it is so much about the guy being accurate as it is a matter of believers in this prophecy reinterpreting the prophecy to fit popes once they are elected. The wording of the prophecy is general enough to allow for a lot of this. The true test: If there really and truly two popes left.

That may not even prove or disprove anything. If there is more than two remaining, well there are enough antipopes that were once considered valid and cannoized popes that are questionable that you could easily shift the whole works and then work to sort out reapplying each prophecy description to pope, etc. To sum up, there's a lot of wiggle room.
 
gladius said:
staurofilakes said:
I think this prophecies are too general to give them credit. You could find similarities with this phrases on everybody.

- Pastor and mariner: he loved sailing

- Flower of flowers: he had a big garden

- From the half moon: he borned,appointed or dead in a half moon night.

- Toil of the sun:....................................

- Glory of the olive: he always had bread with olive oil for breakfast.

- Peter the roman: it could mean so many things...

These are the generalities you gave. But thats not how it turned out did it.

You are basing it on personal habits which anyone could fill, that's not the case here.

Some of the descriptions were beyond human control. It's not about their personal habits thats being described as "if someone loved sailing", if it were so then anybody could fit the prophecies or make themsleves fit into them, if it were that easy then these prophecies would'nt count for much.

MontyB said:
This is pretty much the most common argument against these prophecies, the anti-prophecy theory is that the book was written in the 1600s because this is when it surfaced and they are extremely accurate up until that point after the 1600 the prophecies become more "generic" so that it was fairly easy to make them apply to the pope of the time.
Essentially up to the 1600s it is a history book and after that its a Nostradamus style "general" statement book.

To disprove what you are saying here are some of the predictions about the earlier (pre-1600) popes. You can see they they are about the same in accuracy as the present day ones.

Celestine II (1143-1144) 1 Ex castro Tyberis (from a castle on the Tiber)
Was born in Citta di Castello, Toscany, on the shores of the Tiber

Innocent III (1198-1216) 15 Comes signatus (signed Count)
Descendant of the noble Signy, later called Segni family

Nicholas IV (1288-1292) 31 Ex eremo celsus (elevated from a hermit)
Prior to his election he was a hermit in the monastery of Pouilles

John XXII (1316-1334) 35 De sutore osseo (of the cobbler of Osseo)
Family name Ossa, son of a shoe-maker

Benedict XII (1334-1342) 37 Frigidus Abbas (cold friar)
He was a priest in the monastery of Frontfroid (coldfront)

Callistus III (1455-1458) 55 Bos pascens (grazing ox)
Alphonse Borgia's arms sported a golden grazing ox


Here are some of the others after the 1600's, as you can see about the same in accuracy.


Gregory XVI (1831-1846) 100 De balneis hetruriæ (bath of Etruria)
Prior to his election he was member of an order founded by Saint
Romuald, at Balneo, in Etruria, present day Toscany.

Benedict XV (1914-1922) 104 Religio depopulata (Religion laid waste)
This Pope reigned during the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia which store the establishment of Communism.

In fact the 20th century popes have fit the descriptions even more than even the pre-1600 popes, most in events beyond human control. If it were as simple as where he was from, then it could be said that he was elected because of where he is from. The hoax case for this is pretty weak.

(off the subject but, as far as Nostradamus is concerened--yes his statements are generalities. However only when read in conjuction to his letter to King Henry they are no longer generalties but specific information, most people don't really know this. I don't the two are mean to be read seperate, hence the generalities, but I don't really want to get into this right now.)

The problem remains in that you are reading a modern interpretation of the prophecy and that interpretation is probably not based of the original either (something along the lines of "Chinese whispers" only with hindsight) and not on a direct translation of the original text therefore you are basing your call off already biased data.
(hope that makes sense)

To make your argument valid you would have to translate or at least use a credible translation of the original text which is the only unbiased data.

As for the King Henry letter there is a strong argument to say that it has already been shown to be inaccurate as he didnt die on the field of battle but in a tournament joust.
(I hope I have the right Nostradamus prediction here).

The wording of the prophecy is general enough to allow for a lot of this. The true test: If there really and truly two popes left.

That may not even prove or disprove anything. If there is more than two remaining, well there are enough antipopes that were once considered valid and cannoized popes that are questionable that you could easily shift the whole works and then work to sort out reapplying each prophecy description to pope, etc. To sum up, there's a lot of wiggle room.

Exactly
 
MontyB said:
The problem remains in that you are reading a modern interpretation of the prophecy and that interpretation is probably not based of the original either (something along the lines of "Chinese whispers" only with hindsight) and not on a direct translation of the original text therefore you are basing your call off already biased data.
(hope that makes sense)

To make your argument valid you would have to translate or at least use a credible translation of the original text which is the only unbiased data.

The fact I am not reading accurate translation from the original text is only according to you, correct?

Whatever text the Catholic printers published it in during the early 1900's has so far come true. So whatever words they used has come true. Besides they are only simple phrases what more needs to be translated.

This argument for the original version is really weak. Since they have come true using present script, including the latest one regardless of if what anyone says regarding original script


As for the King Henry letter there is a strong argument to say that it has already been shown to be inaccurate as he didnt die on the field of battle but in a tournament joust.
(I hope I have the right Nostradamus prediction here).

I don't know if you know what you are talking about, because it was Nostradamus who predicted king Henry's death in a joust:

The young lion will overcome the older one,
on the field of combat in single battle,
He will pierce his eyes through a golden cage,
Two wounds made one, then he dies a cruel death.

In 1559, depite having being warned against ritual combat by Luc Gauricus, King Henry proceeded to joust in a tournament celebrating his sister Marguerite's marriage to the Duke of Savoy, and his daughter Elizabeth's marriage to the King of Spain. Both King Henry and his younger jousting opponent the Comte de Montgomery had lions embossed on their shields. Because the bout ended in a draw, the king insisted on another joust, which resulted in Montgomery's lance splintering and piercing the king's visor. Multiple wounds to the face and throat caused the king to linger for ten days before dying. This prophecy was first published in 1555 — four years before the tournament and the king's death — far enough into the future to be considered prophetic, close enough in his own lifetime to receive validation and be taken seriously.


This source is from Wikipedia;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus

The wording of the prophecy is general enough to allow for a lot of this. The true test: If there really and truly two popes left.

That may not even prove or disprove anything. If there is more than two remaining, well there are enough antipopes that were once considered valid and cannoized popes that are questionable that you could easily shift the whole works and then work to sort out reapplying each prophecy description to pope, etc. To sum up, there's a lot of wiggle room.

Exactly

Wiggle room or not, the evidence for Malachy's prophecy has already proven itself. If it were the case for for only one or two prophecies, then you could make a case that people were trying for wiggle room. But when one after the other, multiple times, over and over, fits a major aspect of each popes life then the wiggle room stuff becomes insignificant. Even if there was wiggle room in each one, having to do it multiples times over the centuries is certainly astounding and beyond what nomal people can do.

I also mentioned this earlier, there is contraversy sorrounding the final prediction since its not included in other manuascripts, some doubt its authenticity, this has been known for a long time.

The fact still remains that so far the past prophecies have come true.

If there are only two popes left, that we shall see. I'm actually hoping there are more than two popes left.
 
Since neither of us are going to modify our opinions on this and we both are going to cling to the same arguments which means that it will go nowhere and invariably turn nasty how about we just wait and see, as thunder says we will know in 2 popes time.
 
Well seeing as Benedict XVI is 78 and has a history of health problems I doubt we'll be waiting long for the next one.
 
I myself am hoping he lives to be a hundred. They need to transfuse him Bob Hope style if need be. Lol. I'm in no hurry to see the next one.

Nevertheless the contraversy surrounding the last prophecy at least leaves some room for optomism.
 
While were at it, this is a little bit off subject (it may have some bearing), but;

This prophectic stuff really fascinates me. I know there are alot of kooks out there, but once in a while there is someone who is not, this guy is one of the very few who is on target.

Has anyone heard of Kim Clement.

He has predicted both the 9/11 terror attacks and the Iraq war accurately.

He did it a full five years before 9/11, this has been verified, they even interviewed him on CNN.

Here are some of his exact words (dated July 1996):

9/11
There has been a terrorist act and there will be another. For the Spirit of the Lord says, America will retaliate, but God says, even as they retaliate with natural weapons of war and they say, we will go the place of the east and we will go and we will bring them down for what they did to our people as they flew in the air, over Long Island.

Self explanatory as the terrorist act who flew over the air over Long island. Not only that but it also includes the US invasion of Afganistan (a place of the east), because of the fact.

Iraq War
...The very god of the east, the very king of the east, the very prince of the east. The one that waged a war against America. They spoke about the mother of wars. For God says, This is going to be the mother of wars as you have never seen. For the Spirit of God will rise up against the prince of the east, and He will bring him down

This would have to be non other than Saddam who waged a previous war against the US in his "Mother of all Battles". Indeed he was brought down with shock and awe.

Here is the link to the full transcript;http://www.kimclement.com/words/PERCEPTIONS/PERCEPTIONSTerrorist7-25-96.htm

I don't know how you can argue that this guys hasn't told the future, at least on this writting, the details are pretty specific. Gives credence to the idea that someone like Malachy could have also predicted the future.
 
dude....those latest latest one are vague as!


no great leap to say that the US would attack "someone to the east!"


as for attacking iraq...bound to happen
 
chewie_nz said:
dude....those latest latest one are vague as!


no great leap to say that the US would attack "someone to the east!"

If you mention only mentioned the US would attack "someone to the east!" by itself, yes that is vague.

NOT if you mention it in the same sentence as someone doing a terrorist act as they flew over the air over Long Island, then attack someone in the east because of it. How vague is this now? I think you left out this part when talkin about vagueness.

as for attacking iraq...bound to happen

You have to think this was made in 1996, when Clinton was still president, who would have thought of attacking Iraq then, not only that but bringing Saddam down. The thought of taking out Saddam then, was out of the question

This is mentioned in the very same statement as the one about 9-11, which led to all this. This war against Saddam was mention AS A WHOLE, not seperate, to the one about 9-11 and was mentioned as a result coming after 9-11, not only does it mention it, but does so in proper cronology.

Maybe if it was mentioned seperately you have a strong chance for arguement.

This saying that attacking Iraq was bound to happen is especialy weak coming from someone like you who I beleive opposed the war in Iraq, so basicly you are saying it was in fact inevitable? Not to mention attacking Iraq is one thing, but to actually take Saddam out is another.

Oh yeah this same guy predicted in 1995 that Bush would be president. Do you want me to post that here too?
 
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