Ongoing Violence & Riots in France




 
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Ongoing Violence & Riots in France
 
November 2nd, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 

Topic: Ongoing Violence & Riots in France


Ongoing Violence & Riots in France
Seventh Day of Violence Erupts Near Paris

Seventh Straight Day of Violence Erupts in Tough Streets of Paris' Northeastern Suburbs

ABC News

CLICHY-SOUS-BOIS, France Nov 2, 2005 Menacing youths smoked cigarettes in doorways Wednesday and hulks of burned cars littered the tough streets of Paris' northeastern suburbs scarred by a week of riots that left residents on edge and sent the government into crisis mode.

In a seventh consecutive night of skirmishes, young people threw rocks at police Wednesday in six suburbs in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris about a 40-minute drive from the Eiffel Tower. In one of them, Le Blanc-Mesnil, about a dozen cars burned and curious residents, some in slippers and bathrobes, poured into the streets.

Some said the unrest sparked by the accidental deaths of two teenagers last week is an expression of frustration over grinding unemployment and police harassment in the communities, where many North African immigrants live. "It is not going to end. It is going to explode," said an 18-year-old who would only give his name as Amine.

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy both canceled trips abroad to deal with the unrest.

"The government is entirely mobilized. Its immediate priority is to restore public order, and restore it without delay," de Villepin said.

Muslim leaders at Clichy-sous-Bois' mosque, meanwhile, prayed for peace and asked parents to keep teenagers off the streets after skirmishes broke out after two teenage boys were electrocuted last Thursday while hiding in a power substation because they believed police were chasing them.

The unrest spread to at least nine Paris-region towns overnight Tuesday, exposing the despair, anger and criminality in France's poor suburbs fertile terrain for Islamic extremists, drug dealers and racketeers.

The violence, concentrated in neighborhoods with large African and Muslim populations, has highlighted the difficulties many European nations face with immigrant communities feeling marginalized and restive, cut off from the continent's prosperity and, for some extremists, its values, too.

"They have no work. They have nothing to do. Put yourself in their place," said Abderrahmane Bouhout, president of the Clichy-sous-Bois mosque, where a tear gas grenade exploded Sunday evening. Local youths suspected a police attack, and authorities are investigating.

excerpted...
read more at
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1275087

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So is this a new sort of revolution in republic of france?! LoL
Will ChiraQ government fall? /sarcasm
November 3rd, 2005  
mmarsh
 
 
Anyway

Well its a situation thats been brewing for sometime. As much as I would like to feel sympathy for the protestors I just don't. These people are immigrants many of which are illegal, and they tend to be quite violent, espically the youths. Not to sound racist but it is true that alot of crime (espically violent crime) in France comes from these African immigrants. This lot was not an exception. They ran from the police (a dumb idea) snuck into a power grid to avoid the police (a really dumb idea) and fried themselves (guess the DANGER 25000 VOLTS signs didnt scare them). Who do the immigrants blame? The police of course.

Yes I understand their situation isnt the best, but frankly they are lucky to be here, because no matter how bad it (they are on government subsidies, so its not like they are starving) is it was alot worse where they came from. Most of these riots are just anarchists looking to destroy things anyway.

A friend of my was ex-French Gendarmerie (military police). The trouble is France often copies the mistakes of Americans. One of which was politicans to hamstring the police in violent situations as was done in the 1980's in places like NYC and LA. The result is the politicans simply are too afraid facing a civil suit from minorities (and get labelled racist) should the police need to use force, in particular lethal force. Its the old blame the cops, protect the criminals method. So the kids-gloves method is used, which as we see gets us nowhere.

What the government doesnt realize is just like the US, the French working taxpayer is sick of getting assaulted on the street (espically against women) and having the police being powerless to do anything about it. Thats why my friend got out of the cops, it just wasnt worth it, its was the cops that became the criminals. Sooner or later, the Government will have to get a Rudi Guiliani (actually they have already hired him, the interior minister Sarkozy is a big Guiliani supporter) and use more extreme methods and this this will end.
November 3rd, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Africans living in China are also blamed for the more violent crimes perpetrated by foreigners here. A local cop told me they know that 60% of all the (nameless african country) in China have been deported once already for either violent or drug related offenses. Things ARE so bad back home that they would rather be here so it doesn't surprise me at all this is happening in France. China is now looking at ways of toughening up visa regs to prevent the entry of Africans and many Middle Eastern people but without being accused of being racist or hurting their economic growth. Perhaps France should copy them once the dust settles.
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Ongoing Violence & Riots in France
November 3rd, 2005  
mmarsh
 
 
Bulldogg

I didnt know that, I never thought of China as being a destination for African immigration. Interesting.

Actually France has the tightest immigration policies in Europe. Its just as hard to enter France as it is to enter the USA , although these anti-immigration laws are fairly recent about 15 years old. There is alot of illegal immigration in France, but most immigrants use France as a Transit point to cross into the UK, where immigration is easier (although thats now changing).

These immigrants are not are not 'new' immigrants they have been here 20 or so years, so unfortunatly its too late to send them back. Besides its their kids that are causing this mess.
November 3rd, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
They can't become citizens but they can receive visas indefinitely and they are making a killing. They are importing drugs and exporting China produced goods. In the city where I live they estimate there are over 10,000 from one particular African country alone. And that's just the legal ones they know about. You have to imagine the scale involved with China. They simply can't keep track of you once you enter so people overstay their visas all the time. Some I have met have lived here for over five years- no visa - making obscene amounts of money when compared to their lives back where they came from.

Was immigration into France easier when these kids parents came over?

I have a good friend from Lyon whose mother is Algerian. He said he will never return to France. There is no future for him there he says.
November 3rd, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Yeah never heard China gets immigrants from Africa. Anyways the Paris events are a kick in the for all those (primarily) Europeans who have been going around for decades saying how much better the European version of multiculturalism was, compared to the American model.
This was in fact proved wrong when Theo Van Gogh was killed in the superdeveloped and tolerant Netherlands and in the same country the Muslim character of his movie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, lives under fear and terror of being murdered too (let's not forget that nobody helped him while he was being stabbed to death- they probably didn't want to look politically incorrect putting their hands on an Arab), when Spanish Socialist Prime Minister had the border patrols shoot at clandestine immigrants from Africa, when more than 50 % of detainees in Italy are from Africa, when the Kurds and the Turkish immigrants in Germany are not integrated at all, let alone the large areas of London (I lived in Finsbury Park for a while), West Midlands and other cities in the UK, which have become outposts of Islamic non-integrated immigrants.
I laugh at those ignorant intellectuals who look down on the American "integration model".
Sorry I just had to vent it out.
November 3rd, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 


Feel better now?

I have been hearing both sides of the European immigration line. Some saying how much better it is and others saying its a powder keg. Unfortunately both sides have used such polarising rhetoric its difficult to take either seriously without thinking they are pie in the sky out of touch with the real world Marxists or on the other end neo-nazi racists. It is shameful how no matter how advanced we consider ourselves that at the end of the day it is tribalism that guides our actions.
November 3rd, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
It's really not as much tribalism as 'rhetoric'-alism. The world gets more complicated every day and people are too stupid/don't care enough to learn it. So they just go with whatever sounds the best.

"These immigrants are going to destory our society and steal our jobs!" - Holly mother F*ing S**t!!! Really? I'd better fight this, I like my society and I like my job, I don't want to be homeless!!!

"If you dislike immigrants you are a racist and a biggot... and I thought you where better than this!" - I don't want to be immoral! I like helping people and I like that people want to come to my country. That's right, we should help those in need and not stamp on the ones that do the jobs we don't want to do anyway. How dare anyone hate such nice, underpriviledged people, I would never want to be like them!

That's the game, that's the world society. 90% emotion 10% logic in everything that is done. Thank god we where born in such a time!!!
November 3rd, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Italian Guy

then you have to come and see Canada (Canuckistan)

Any how, The US has been more successful in Immigration issues than EU or Canada.
November 3rd, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix80
Then you have to come and see Canada (Canuckistan)
Oh I've been there, I know. I'm also trying to keep myself updated about the sharia/legal cases thing which has been going on in Canada, you sure know what I'm talking about.