OCTOBER 1973 WAR (YUM KIPPUR)- AN EGYPTIAN VICTORY

So? what's the points? Let's follow Hitler then... And kill people who dont look like us...

And once we leave only white people, we will wage war on dark eyes to leave only blue eyes and blond hair...
And then we will wage war on short people to leave only tall men... And then we will wage war on fat women... A little belly, boum, headshot...

The need for a shepard is one thing, but dont mistake it with the need for leadership... The shepard can be a council, or an expert (like a medical doctor for health issues)... etc...

We need real politics... Not these jokes they call politics...

I say a not so serious documentary called "where in the world is Osama Ben Laden?"... funny somehow, and a point, a human right activist said that we should, as people, ignore the official political lines to build bridges directly between the people.
To let the people communicate with each others outside the control of governments...

If the Israelis started to learn to live with their Arabs neighbors... They might change things... let the governments wage war on each others, but we have to isolate the people from their governments politics...

They tell us that Muslims cant live in pace with jews, while we see jews living with Muslims in so many countries... France, Spain, Morroco, Tunisia, USA... etc... the list is huge...
 
IMO The aim of the regimes surrounding Israeli is her extintion so that being said what was the aim of the attack in the first place? I really dont see that Egypt accomplished anything except enduring another in a long series of Israeli brigade sized Drive by shootings !!
 
Drive by shooting?

Honestly, I dont like these terms much. It's not a game, we have Israel and Egypt fighting each others... And this gang war imagery is very sad.

We you think about how serious the situation is, it's really sad... To see governments fighting each others for lands and power... Makes you want to dismantle both governments for stupidity, corruption and incompetence.
 
From my point of view, the war back at 1973 reached the peace treaty (Camp David) I seperate the military outcome from the political outcome, but hey I am an International Relation and a Political Scientist. I have been a soldier. The war was successful for the Israelis, to cut of an Egyptian army and their supply lines, it was to be successful. Actually, its 1/3 of the whole Egyptian army.

The mutually hurting stalemate caused by the war, and in matter fact, the IDF had other problems, to the north and the PLO in Lebanon. Before the intervention in 1982, they (Israelis) went up there in 1978, I do not remember the name of the Operation, I am thinking of the river there. This contributed to the Peace treaty with Egypt.

Actually, the whole situation in the Middle East and Israel, this war belong to the history. Can the situation be solved? Perhaps, but I think it must come from a down-up rather than a top-down. I am thinking about the intrastate war in Liberia. One woman suddenly stood up and started to opose the raping, killing, and to see the young people become kidnapped to be child soldiers, both by the government and the RUF, this movement spread to the block, the city, then the whole country. They demanded peace and they got it. Perhaps the Israeli and the Palestinians need to do the same. It require both to stand up and say enough.





ps. I do not use the term winning when it comes to a war, I use the term successful.
 
just to short cut the debate
Israel crossed the canal for 4 purposes
1-occupy ismaelia
2- occupy suez
3-force the egyptian third army to surrender
4- advancing on cairo

did israel achieve any of such purposes ?
they were defeated in ismaelia
even after the cease fire they tried to occupy suez but also were defeated and did withdraw , they tried to force the third army to surrender but they failed


The 1973 Arab-Isreali War
AUTHOR Major Steven J. Piccirilli, USMC
CSC 1989
SUBJECT AREA - History


The achievement of President Sadat's strategic
objectives make a good final note. Sadat's basic objective
was to end the state of "No Peace, No War" and to force
negotiations. Kilometer 101, Geneva, and ultimately Camp
David certainly proved this success. The superpowers were
forced to involve themselves in the Middle East on Sadat's
terms, not their own. The war restored Egypt to a position
of primacy among Arab states. The results of the war
permitted Egypt to reopen the Suez Canal and thus regain some
of the economic resources, not to mention the prestige, it
had lost in 1967. Arab pride and confidence had been
restored. The war technically was a stalemate at the point
of the ceasefire, with no clear victory on either side. For
the Arabs and Sadat, that was enough. Their goal was to
prove that the Israelis were not invincible, that they could
be neutralized, that they could be defeated. Clearly, the
Arabs had accomplished that.43
As a final statement, a quote from Dupuy:
If War is the employment of military
force in support of political objectives,
there can be no doubt that in strategic
and political terms the Arab States
and particularly Egypt -- won the War,
even though the military outcome was a
stalemate . 44


{the main reason Israel lost in 1973 was not lack of intelligence, but the fact that they viewed Egypt as "a lifeless corpse without a will". }
Haim Herzog, head of Israeli intelligence, later


 
Egypt (MISR)
http://www.country-studies.com/egypt/october-1973-war.html AND http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1997/Al-Jowder.htm : da link laziz fih el infos that u need .

Quotes on the war and israelis admitting the defeat :

{the main reason Israel lost in 1973 was not lack of intelligence, but the fact that they viewed Egypt as "a lifeless corpse without a will". }
Haim Herzog, head of Israeli intelligence, later

Golda Meir, Israeli prime minister during the October War
"The Egyptians crossed the Canal and hit our forces in Sinai hard. The Syrians pushed deep into the Golan Heights. We incurred grave losses on both fronts. The agonising question at that time was should we or should we not inform the nation of the truth of our appalling situation?
"I write of the Yom Kippur War not as a military report, but as an intimate disaster or a horrible nightmare that I myself have suffered and which will continue to haunt me for the rest of my life." -- My Life

General Ishio Javitch
"For Israel, the war ultimately ended without our being able to break up the Arab armies, neither Egypt's nor Syria's. We scored no victories. Nor did we succeed in restoring the deterrent power of the Israeli army. If we assess achievements against targets, we will find that the Arabs' victory was the more decisive." -- Symposium on the October War, Jerusalem, 16 September 1974

Ma'areev, 20 September 1998
"The alarm that went off at 1.50 pm on 6 October 1973 was more than a mere alarm cautioning Israeli citizens to go down into their underground shelters. It was, rather, the call that is heard marking the burial of the dead. The deceased was the first Israeli republic. When the war was over, the clock was turned back and a new history began. After 25 years, the pillars of old Israel were no more than a wreck stranded by the side of the road."


Zaev Schev, Israeli military commentator
"For the Israeli army, this is the first war in which many soldiers suffered combat shock and needed psychological treatment. Some of them forgot their own names.

"The October War has shaken Israel from top to bottom. In the place of our former overconfidence, suspicions have emerged and questions surfaced: could we stand another war?" -- The October Earthquake: Yom Kippur War

David Hirst, British journalist
"The October War was an earthquake. For the first time in the history of Zionism, the Arabs tried and succeeded in imposing by the force of arm a fait accompli.

"The setback was not merely military, but it also affected all the psychological, diplomatic and economic elements making up the power and vitality of the nation. Within three weeks, they lost, according to official figures, 2,523 personnel, a loss which in proportionate terms is two and a half times the US loss in the Vietnam war over ten years" --The Gun and Olive Branch

The Daily Telegraph, 7 October 1973
"As the Egyptian army crossed the Suez Canal, cutting through the Bar Lev line, it changed the course of history both for Egypt and the entire Middle East."

Reuters, Tel Aviv, 11 October 1973
"It was quite clear that the Israelis had lost the initiative in this war. This was admitted by their leaders, including General Shlomo Jonin, commander of the southern front in Sinai, who said, 'This is the most difficult war fought by Israel since its creation in 1948.'"

L'Humanité, 17 October 1973
"The October war has shattered the security borders theory as understood by Israeli leaders. The war has proved that Israel's security cannot be guaranteed by tanks and missiles but only by a peaceful settlement with the Arab states."

Ha'aretz, 2 November 1973
"For the first time in their lifetime, Israeli soldiers have known the experience of siege and isolation during battle, the disgrace of capture and the fear of ammunition running out."

Der Spiegel, 5 November 1973
"General Yitzhak Rabin had announced that his country had military plans for all eventualities, including the occupation of the North Pole. But it seems that the sweeping Egyptian onslaught at midday on 6 October had not been included among Israeli 'eventualities'. For this oversight, they paid a heavy price."

Source : ( Extracts from the book "The October War through the Eyes of Contemporary Witnesses", published by the State )Information Service in October 1998.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/398/oct08.htm
 
One thing all of you forgot is the help given to Israel from the USA while the soviet union refused giving Egypt any advanced air craft

Another is that Egypt only made the useless move of attacking into the heart of Sinai only to releive the pressure on the syrians which would have had the help of all it's surrounding Arabian neighbors
 
Egypt had on the west bank of the canal in the delta mainly were about 800 tanks of which atleast 250 were t-62s while Israelis had only three divisions on the western bank and the three divisions of the Israelis failed to occupy suez or Ismailia and suez only had minor rescisstance which was formed by civilians so how could Israel advance on Cairo with almost 800 tanks waiting?only some one who doesn't know any thing about the war would assume that Israel could afford to attack cairo
 
LeMask said:
you think about how serious the situation is, it's really sad... To see governments fighting each others for lands and power...
Click to expand...
I agree, the greatest tragedy is the UN did not solve the "Palestinia problem" when they set up the state of Israel. Palestinian people living in other countries has been an open sore in the peace process ever since.

Ghostrider said:
the war back at 1973 reached the peace treaty (Camp David) I seperate the military outcome from the political outcome
Click to expand...
It is a good stopping point, it formally ended the costly War of Attrition.

Ghostrider said:
The war was successful for the Israelis, to cut of an Egyptian army and their supply lines, it was to be successful.
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It is a limited success, had the war continued it could have become a critical issue. Yes, with the supplies to the Egyptian Army cut off, the Egyptian Army could have lasted only few more days! Their water situation was the most critical resource. One can not fight thirst and an enemy very long in the hot desert.

SilverAssassin said:
3-force the egyptian third army to surrender
4- advancing on cairo
Click to expand...
Israelis were in position at the first cease fire (10/22/73) to prevent the Egyptian Army from getting any more water! The Egyptian Army tried twice to open the road to Ismailia with no success. Only the pressure of the two super powers and the rest of the international community prevented this. (Many nations cried it was in-humane to cause an enemy to die of thirst.... it is also in-humane to start a war.) The Israelis lack sufficient forces that crossed the canal to mount a real attack on Cairo or any other city of size. Shortly after the Israelis were in Africa they gained control of all the roads and access to the Sinai desert. This move not only isolated Egypt's 3rd Army but, allowed Israel to use a different tactic. If, the Israeli armor saw an Egyptian armor, they were not to engage them but, call for air support. Israeli AF now had holes in the defense across the Suez Canal and they attacked any Egyptian forces which approach the Canal. The Israeli armor then set about finding all the Egyptian SAM sites and destroyed them. Now the Egyptian Army had no air cover other than what the Egyptian AF could then provide.
To their credit, the commander of the 2nd & 3rd Egyptian Armies requested permission to pull back across the Suez Canal and Anwar Saddat said, no! Remain in place, a very wise decision. It turned out to be of critical importance in the peace negotiations.

O.W.E.G. said:
One thing all of you forgot is the help given to Israel from the USA while the soviet union refused giving Egypt any advanced air craft

Another is that Egypt only made the useless move of attacking into the heart of Sinai only to releive the pressure on the syrians which would have had the help of all it's surrounding Arabian neighbors
Click to expand...
Who said the Soviet Union failed to help their allies. The entire year before the conflict the USSR modernized and enhanced the capabilities of the Arab coalition. But during the war, the USA supplied more tons of supplies to Israel by air than the USSR did to its Arab allies. (This illustrated to the USSR their airborne strategic supply capability in power projection was lacking compared to the USA, especially compared to the relative distances involved.)
Look up, "Operation Nickel Grass" America's re-supply efforts.

O.W.E.G. said:
And it would be very easy for the combined forces of the Arabs
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Actually, it was very difficult! Each country sees their defense needs differently, which is why the Egyptian Army had fixed SAM sites while the Syrian Army had mobile units. Each also had their own agenda and that is why in all previous conflicts with Israeli despite their numerical superiority they consistently failed in defeating Israel. Jordan did not want to get into the 1973 war at all. Their inability to work together is the reason the War of Yum Kippur did not crush Israel! Israel would shift soldiers from the Sinai to the Golan Heights, as needed. So, a soldier could fight in the Sinai in the morning and late afternoon/evening fight on the Golan Heights.

While the Israeli Army could feel victorious, it was not the over-whelming type victories they were used to. The Egyptian Army in the Sinai, provided pride pride to Egypt and many in the Arab world. It was a basis to negotiate in earnest. The poor Syrians wound up at about the same place they started when all is said and done. It is also the first time in all the wars with Israel that the Egyptian AF was still a effective fighting force.
 
Good reply Avon but u ignored the fact that Israel couldn't afford to attack Cairo

And that about 800 tanks can win a battle against the three divisions even when being attacked by the IAF and I may doubt it but I think that the EAF could give them some support for atleast one battle
 
It's a fact that you can only stretch your supply lines to a certain limit before any movement will come to an end, and your mighty forces will end up as vulnerable sitting ducks.
A lesson learned the hard way by many during the past thousand years.

A modern army can't rely upon scavenging their surroindings for supplies, and I belive that would be true for the IDF as well, so maybe Cairo was out of reach for them.
On the other hand, why should they try to charge on for Cairo?
The Egyptian high command and every government function would be evacuated to a safe place long before they could reach Cairo anyway.

The distance between the IDF and Cairo could be littered with nasty surprises, and urban warfare on foreign soil is any commanders nightmare.

In short, I don't believe the IDF would take that risk just to humiliate the enemy.

As for the Egyptian forces, being surrounded, low on supplies and espescially in a desperate situation concerning water, their options was limited.

I believe the moment for a cease-fire was perfect, even more so as it left both parts standing relatively undefeated, and both could claim some sort of victory.

The only sure outcome of a prolonged war then was massive losses on both sides, maybe we should just be gratefull that it didn't happen?
 
Yeah, it was a perfect cease-fire and enabled Egypt to restore face in their world and brought about a long-standing peace.
 
A war ending in a mutuably aggreed long-standing peace, that's pretty close to sucsess for both sides in my opinion.

Let's just hope that whoever comes in charge of Egypt in the future is willing to honour that peace.
 
The saddest part of the War of Yum Kippur is, despite the vicious fighting on the Goland Heights, nothing was resolved! A lot of men were killed and both countries technically are still at war!
 
The Golan Heights was a Syrian target, as they failed to keep up proper communication with the Egyptians, they more or less have their self to blame for that mess-up in my opinon.
 
Ya the main problem for us Arabs in the war is that we lost coordination bet.our attacks at aproximated to be the 4-6 days of when the war started
 
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