Originally Posted by lljadw

You said this many times,but you are wrong :nazism(= an ideology) was not crushed by an other ideology,but by brute force .

Why would it not be possible to crush ISIS by using a nuclear weapon ?

Actually it was not the Nazi ideology that was defeated but the Nazi army/regime that was defeated.

Please see the quote below:

"Following Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II and the end of the Holocaust, overt expressions of support for Nazi ideas were prohibited in Germany and other European countries. Nonetheless, movements that self-identify as National Socialist or are described as adhering to National Socialism continue to exist on the fringes of politics in many western societies. Usually espousing a white supremacist ideology, many deliberately adopt the symbols of Nazi Germany."

Please refer this:
Ed. Blamires, Cyprian and Jackson, Paul. World Fascism: A Historical Encyclopedia, Volume 1. ABC-CLIO. pp. 459–461.B

Originally Posted by JOC

The Nazi's were out to conquer all of Europe and possibly other areas as well. They were a world treat and it took the combined forces of the USSR, USA and British Common Wealth to defeat them. They were one of the biggest treats civilized man has ever faced.

How can you compare a few 10 of thousands of radicals that are loosely knit and are only achieving victories because they are fighting weak foes to Nazi Germany who had an extremely powerful military.

The point is that it was not possible to defeat Germany without the use of weapons : propaganda would not be sufficient .

It is the same for ISIS :ISIS will not stop its atrocities because of Western propaganda,it will only stop its atrocities when it has been crushed .


Other point : why are the foes of ISIS weak ? Is it not because the US are hindering the enemies of ISIS by attacking them ?


Why is ISIS still not crushed ? Is it not because the West is unwilling to use weapons that would crush ISIS ? Things as nukes,or REAL conventional bombardments ,as in WWII ?

If it had been possible to defeat ISIS by propaganda, this would have been done.As it has not been done,the conclusion is that it was not possible .

To win,ISIS is using terror; to defeat ISIS,one must use more terror .

Our "terror" is legal, the terror of ISIS is not legal .

Originally Posted by Tuan

Actually it was not the Nazi ideology that was defeated but the Nazi army/regime that was defeated.

Please see the quote below:

"Following Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II and the end of the Holocaust, overt expressions of support for Nazi ideas were prohibited in Germany and other European countries. Nonetheless, movements that self-identify as National Socialist or are described as adhering to National Socialism continue to exist on the fringes of politics in many western societies. Usually espousing a white supremacist ideology, many deliberately adopt the symbols of Nazi Germany."

Please refer this:
Ed. Blamires, Cyprian and Jackson, Paul. World Fascism: A Historical Encyclopedia, Volume 1. ABC-CLIO. pp. 459–461.B

And the defeat of the German army meant the end of nazism in Germany .

If you want to defeat post-war existing nazi movements:use force : put them in prison,or hang them .

Such people (Stormfront) will never change their positions .

May I also observe that the Historical Encyclopedia is making the classic mistake of making no difference between fascism and nazism .

Fascists were the followers of Mussolini :they have disappeared .

Nazis were the followers of Hitler : they still exist (on a small scale) .

Originally Posted by lljadw

The point is that it was not possible to defeat Germany without the use of weapons : propaganda would not be sufficient .

It is the same for ISIS :ISIS will not stop its atrocities because of Western propaganda,it will only stop its atrocities when it has been crushed .


Other point : why are the foes of ISIS weak ? Is it not because the US are hindering the enemies of ISIS by attacking them ?


Why is ISIS still not crushed ? Is it not because the West is unwilling to use weapons that would crush ISIS ? Things as nukes,or REAL conventional bombardments ,as in WWII ?

If it had been possible to defeat ISIS by propaganda, this would have been done.As it has not been done,the conclusion is that it was not possible .

To win,ISIS is using terror; to defeat ISIS,one must use more terror .

Our "terror" is legal, the terror of ISIS is not legal .

Yes Germany was defeated by an all out effort of the combined forces of the USA. the USSR and the British Common Wealth. Major collateral damage to Germany and occupied Europe resulted from such a total war footing.

What you are failing to realize is you cannot compare the magnitude of the world treat presented by Nazi Germany with the threats presented by these terrorist groups.

Should we support resistance groups like the Syrian rebels and the Kurds yes by all means. Is it up to us to completely destroy ISIS and everyone else nearby them in the process no. Also remember there are many things that could evolve out of heavy US involvement a larger more protracted war as they rally against the foreign invaders.

This ME thing is very complex and involves religious and tribal rivalries that go back for ages. WW2 was well defined.

Originally Posted by lljadw

And the defeat of the German army meant the end of nazism in Germany .

If you want to defeat post-war existing nazi movements:use force : put them in prison,or hang them .

Such people (Stormfront) will never change their positions .

May I also observe that the Historical Encyclopedia is making the classic mistake of making no difference between fascism and nazism .

Fascists were the followers of Mussolini :they have disappeared .

Nazis were the followers of Hitler : they still exist (on a small scale) .

So you agree that Nazi ideology is NOT defeated, as it still exists in the form of "Neo-Nazism" which borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including ultranationalism, racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, antiziganism, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler.

Originally Posted by lljadw

What were the consequences when the US used 2 nukes against Japan ?

The only difference between a nuke and a conventional weapon is that the nuke CAN kill more people .there are small nukes that can kill only a few thousand people .

There were and still are consequences for the use of nuclear weapons. Initially, they were used to try to get the Japanese to surrender, or at least realize the show is over. Another reason was to show the Russians what the US can do.
The long term effects weren't known in 1945, but we know it now.

So you think it will not be any political implications for the country using a nuke now?

Originally Posted by lljadw

And the defeat of the German army meant the end of nazism in Germany .

If you want to defeat post-war existing nazi movements:use force : put them in prison,or hang them .

Such people (Stormfront) will never change their positions .

May I also observe that the Historical Encyclopedia is making the classic mistake of making no difference between fascism and nazism .

Fascists were the followers of Mussolini :they have disappeared .

Nazis were the followers of Hitler : they still exist (on a small scale) .

The fascists haven't disappeared, they are still around. They pop up here and there.

Do you know the difference between Fascism and Nazism?

Originally Posted by Tuan

So you agree that Nazi ideology is NOT defeated, as it still exists in the form of "Neo-Nazism" which borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including ultranationalism, racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, antiziganism, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler.

The present homophobia (by Muslims) and antisemitism and Holocaust denial (by the Liberals and Muslims) has nothing to do with Nazism .

Racism and xenophobia have nothing to do with nazism : they existed before nazism and they always will exist .

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

The fascists haven't disappeared, they are still around. They pop up here and there.

Do you know the difference between Fascism and Nazism?

Even in Italy the admirers of Mussolini have disappeared .

If the use of a nuclear weapon against Japan was morally and militarily justified (it saved Allied lives,and,less important, Japanese lives) why would the use of a nuclear weapon against ISIS not be justified morally and militarily ? It would also save Allied lives,and,less important, Muslim lives .