Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS) - Page 27




 
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Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
 
December 9th, 2015  
mmarsh
 
 
Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I believe you are right they are both terrorist organizations. ISIS is the most despicable of any ME organization at this time. However I believe they eventually will run their course or be defeated. At least as far as their effort towards building a permanent Caliphate.

Hezbollah leaves a bad taste in my mouth from their killing the (250 or 300) odd Marines in Lebanon some years back.

I am not so certain that the Ayatollahs in Iran are all that rational? Even though things have normalized a bit in Iran from a few years back. The country is effectively a theocracy.
Props about the Marines. I never served but my Father-in-law was with French Paras in Beruit and narrowly missed getting killed himself that night. I know he'd agreed with you.

I also agree about ISIS, they have made too many enemies, there days are numbered, I just hope that day comes sooner rather than later otherwise more innocent of all races/faiths will die, the people are barbarians.

The Ayatollahs want to stay in power therefore they need to walk a very tight rope between starting a war with either one of the Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia, starting a war with Israel, or being overthrown in a coup by their own people. This is why you see the Ayatollahs hardline softening (and why hardliner Ahmadinajad was fired). The Ayatollahs want Iran to be a regional power, but they don't want to unleash Armageddon in order to get it.

The nuclear deal they brokered with Obama is a sign that they are at least willing to deal. I don't see what they gain by going the hard-line Islamic route.
December 9th, 2015  
lljadw
 
This is whisful-thinking founded on the refusal to admit that muslims are different from us .
December 9th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
This is whisful-thinking founded on the refusal to admit that muslims are different from us .
People have to be judged on an individual basis. An interesting note histories greatest murderers Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not men of faith.
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Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
December 9th, 2015  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
This is whisful-thinking founded on the refusal to admit that muslims are different from us .

Hitler said the same thing about the Jews...when you demonize an entire culture out of hand that's a very dark path you are walking.

I can tell you that you are very different from most other people here at milforum as well, but nobody is suggesting that you be treated differently because of it.

As JOC said, people need to be treated on a individual basis, Muslims are individuals not clones.
December 9th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Your reading capacities are worsening every day : where did I say that slavery was correct ? I said that Lincoln was wrong when he said that the US could not last half slave,half free : the US were born half slave,half free .


Why would it be wonderful to eliminate the dictatorial regime of North Korea ? Of course you don't know the very bad results of the reunification of Germany for West Germany ,and a reunification of the both Koreas would even be worse for South Korea .It would cost thousands of billions .


And about the regime in NK,here also you are wrong :because you have the parochial,unwordly attitude of a lot of Americans that a dictatorial regime is always oppressing its whole population : this is wrong : the North Koreans are on the average reasonable satisfied with the regime (as were the Germans and the Soviets),because the regime has brought them law and order and material advance :they are better of than in 1950,1960,1970,etc : if their situation was worse,the regime would fall .

Why do you think that the Soviets supported the regime to the end ? Not because they were communists,but because in 1989 they were better of than in the past.
As a lot of Americans,you refuse to admit the truth,which is that a lot (maybe most) people prefer a dictator to democracy .It was so in the past, it is so today and it will always be so .

As Bertold Brecht said: erst kommt das Fressen und dan die Moral : first bread and than ethics .
I want to see the sources supporting what you say about how the North Koreans and their perception of their own regime. Or are you basing this on your opinion about North Korea and its citizens?

So the Soviets had it better in 1989 than they had in the past decades? Can you provide with any sources that supports what you are claiming.
December 9th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
People have to be judged on an individual basis. An interesting note histories greatest murderers Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not men of faith.

Wrong : people must be judged on their deeds: the average Muslim in and outsude the ME (thus also in the US and Europe) has proved his indifference to the atrocities of AQ and ISIS,he is proving his concealed sympathy for AQ and ISIS by not protesting against the atrocities of AQ and ISIS,by not preventing them,the average Muslim is unwilling to fight against ISIS:in Belgium 474 Muslims have gone to the ME to join ISIS, but NONE has volunteered to fight against ISIS.Muslims are sympathetic to each other against non Muslims .

The logical conclusion is that they are potential terrorists and must return to the ME and leave Europe and the US.On this point, Trump (for whom I have not much sympathy) is right .
December 9th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Those who stick to their belief that Muslims are people as us,should read the article from Sheldon Figler in the Huffington POst from 3 march 2015 with as title :

Why does Iran want nuclear weapons ? An alarming possibility .

The end is striking :


"The Obama administration and State Department may find it inconceivable that a nation in our contemporary world would create a vast uranium enrichment capability ,much of it at hardened or underground locations,for the objective of bringing about an apocalytic event that will set the stage for the return of the 12th Imam or Mahdi.However, ignoring the words of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei [I](the author refers to a speech from Khamenei on july 9 2011)[I]and transposing our own Western concepts onto Iran's motivation for creating its nuclear project is a perilous course for America and the world to pursue ."


Simplified : Muslims are not people as us .

For the return of the Mahdi,Khamenei is willing to sacrifice the lives of 40 million Iranians .The return of the Mahdi is nothing new,remember the story of Gordon in Sudan .
December 9th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
I want to see the sources supporting what you say about how the North Koreans and their perception of their own regime. Or are you basing this on your opinion about North Korea and its citizens?

So the Soviets had it better in 1989 than they had in the past decades? Can you provide with any sources that supports what you are claiming.

Per capita GDP in Russia /SU (in dollars of 1980)

1913: 973

1987: 5950


Automobile production in the SU:


1950:362,985

1980: 2,199,200


And ,in 1950 there was no television in the SU, but in 1980,there were a lot of television sets .


Conclusion : at the end of the SU,live was better for the average citizen than in 1913, in 1938, in 1950,etc ...


To survive any dictatorship needs 3 things:


1) a secret police to crush possible opponents

2) a propaganda machine to highlight successes and conceal failres


3) SUCCESSES :without successes, a dictator is doomed .

If in 1938 the living standard in Germany was the same as in 1932 (= no economic success) national socialism was doomed .

It was the same in the SU :in 1953 the regime was able,without any possible dangerous results for its survival, to disband the Gulag and to send everyone (most common criminals) home.The power of the Cheka was curtailed,but the regime lasted an other 36 years .

It is the same in North Korea:live is better than in 1950 : no television in 1950,which means that there are less political opponents .
December 10th, 2015  
hamidreza
 
we warned you four years ago about returning the terrorists to your home when you closed your eyes and supported ISIS , Al-Nousra and other terrorists by gulf Arab states money and Turkish logistic help! didn't we!!!
December 10th, 2015  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamidreza
we warned you four years ago about returning the terrorists to your home when you closed your eyes and supported ISIS , Al-Nousra and other terrorists by gulf Arab states money and Turkish logistic help! didn't we!!!
We never supported ISIS, not once. We supported other groups in Syria thats true, but never ISIS.
 


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