Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS) - Page 26




 
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Boots
 
December 7th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Says the man who is convinced that the whole world wants to follow the exemple of the US and who tries to impose by force his ideals on those who refuse to adopt the exemple of the US .

Says the man who hides the fact that the majority of the American voters are not interested in politics and remain at home every 4 years at the first tuesday after the first monday of november .

Your basic freedoms are a luxury most people can't afford and most people are not interested in or are hostile to .

Now he will pontificate indignantly about all those millions who emigrated to the US,forgetting (better :refusing to admit) that most of them did not came to the US to have basic freedoms,but to have a better material live .

And,interested readers will observe that he has not yet produced his list of basic freedoms (probably because he is not able to do it) .

You're real good at knocking down all them straw men aren't you?

You have seriously misdiagnosed what you think I believe and where I stand...of course, if you actually read what I have written on here you would have seen that I have NEVER been the one who believed the US should impose our will on anyone EVER unless it follows the principles of legal, moral, and ethical. Which is a criteria that hasn't been fulfilled for some time in our force projection.

I have never ONCE advocated for our involvement in the ME and have frequently insisted that nothing good would come from it. Seems you think we SHOULD be in the ME fighting endless wars for generations. But of course you think so, it isn't you or your families blood that will be shed, it is mine! You want us to do your fighting for you and then have the gall to complain how we do it. GFY! You want us to bear the responsibility for a WWIII you insist is or needs to happen but have zero interest in fighting for it. Again...GFY!

However, you've labeled me in your mind so no matter what I say you have already made up your mind as to what you think I say...

Feel free to interpret this...GFY!
December 7th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Oddly enough I 'sort' of agree with him, in recent years there has been a move towards security as a priority over everything else you only have to look at the lukewarm reaction to Snowden's revelations as an example.

I think had he been around in the late 1990s you would have seen a far different reaction to the information he released.

So I tend to think that "basic freedoms" have been steadily eroded since 2001 throughout the western world.

I agree with the fact basic freedoms HAVE been eroded and I am appalled at this. I do not believe we should curb them at all, in fact I am more inclined to send them in the other direction. I don't trust the government to wield that type of power responsibly and I also prefer to take care of security for myself. I don't need their help in protecting what's mine.

Of course, I also believe it is everyone's responsibility to be able to provide for themselves "materially" and not the governments. I know that I can provide for me and my family regardless of the circumstances and I have taken proactive measures to ensure this occurs even if I someday cannot provide the skills and tools necessary to ensure those "material" goods are taken care of.

My wife and I could stop getting paid today and we would be just fine because we haven't allowed ourselves to be victims of circumstance or at the mercy of another entity. Again, I don't need help from any government to provide for me other than for them to simply leave me alone and make sure my kids don't have to go off to some foreign land and get their ass shot off because of their ineptitude.
December 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk

You have seriously misdiagnosed what you think I believe and where I stand...of course, if you actually read what I have written on here you would have seen that I have NEVER been the one who believed the US should impose our will on anyone EVER unless it follows the principles of legal, moral, and ethical. Which is a criteria that hasn't been fulfilled for some time in our force projection.



.GFY!
Your principles of legal,moral and ethical do not apply in the ME (and I doubt that they apply outside the US),because there are NO such universal principles:as Kipling said : East is East and West is West and both shall never meet each other .

But you belong to these people who believe in things as :"We hold these truths to be self-evident,that all men are created equal,that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ,that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness ."

Although history has learned us that these words have caused a lot of misery in the world, you will stick to them, because you have been taught that these words are the foundations of the American mission in the world .

People who believe that their country has a mission are dangerous .


I never has advocated a big US intervention in the ME,the less we are interfering there ,the better .But the reality is that the policy of Obama, Cameron,Merkel and Hollande has created a catastrophe . For Europe. For the US .What happened in Paris and San Bernardino is only the beginning .ISIS must be destroyed.At all costs. As soon as possible . And if boots on the ground are impossible, we must use machines in the air who drop bombs,and,if this is not possible, a small nuclear weapon . If the West has not the balls to do this, in 2050 ISIS will rule Europe and in 2076,US will no longer exist .

This year 1 MILLION immigrants (= potential terrorists) have come in Germany . Unless there is a miracle, Germany is lost .
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Boots
December 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I agree with the fact basic freedoms HAVE been eroded and I am appalled at this.
Why are you appalled ?

If it is needed to curb them to survive (and it is needed) you should not be appalled .
December 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC



[FONT="Verdana"]Does that make it right? Do you really think the people of N Korea are happy with millions dying of starvation and 10ís of thousands being executed?
They have chosen their dictator and are indifferent to what happens to their neighbours .

Thus, I also do not care about what happens to them .I don't care if they are happy or not : as the Germans they are responsible for their situation and must suffer the consequences .

Besides,the elimination of the dictator of NK would be very bad for the world .

And about Lincoln : He was wrong . US was born as half slave and half free,and in 1860 there was no reason at all why it could not last half slave and half free .
December 7th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
They have chosen their dictator and are indifferent to what happens to their neighbours .

Thus, I also do not care about what happens to them .I don't care if they are happy or not : as the Germans they are responsible for their situation and must suffer the consequences .

Besides,the elimination of the dictator of NK would be very bad for the world .

And about Lincoln : He was wrong . US was born as half slave and half free,and in 1860 there was no reason at all why it could not last half slave and half free .
They have chosen their dictator, say what? Guess again their dictator has been appointed for them. They had no say what so ever in the process. It has been under the Stalinist thumb of the Kim dynasty since WW2. Even the slightest show of defiance to the regime is punished with death or the gulag-torture. It would be wonderful to eliminate this wildcard -murderous regime.

What is wrong with you to mock one of histories greatest figures president Lincoln. You claim to enslave the people of color was correct? Perhaps you should be sent to N Korea and be made a gulag slave.
December 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
They have chosen their dictator, say what? Guess again their dictator has been appointed for them. They had no say what so ever in the process. It has been under the Stalinist thumb of the Kim dynasty since WW2. Even the slightest show of defiance to the regime is punished with death or the gulag-torture. It would be wonderful to eliminate this wildcard -murderous regime.

What is wrong with you to mock one of histories greatest figures president Lincoln. You claim to enslave the people of color was correct? Perhaps you should be sent to N Korea and be made a gulag slave.

Your reading capacities are worsening every day : where did I say that slavery was correct ? I said that Lincoln was wrong when he said that the US could not last half slave,half free : the US were born half slave,half free .


Why would it be wonderful to eliminate the dictatorial regime of North Korea ? Of course you don't know the very bad results of the reunification of Germany for West Germany ,and a reunification of the both Koreas would even be worse for South Korea .It would cost thousands of billions .


And about the regime in NK,here also you are wrong :because you have the parochial,unwordly attitude of a lot of Americans that a dictatorial regime is always oppressing its whole population : this is wrong : the North Koreans are on the average reasonable satisfied with the regime (as were the Germans and the Soviets),because the regime has brought them law and order and material advance :they are better of than in 1950,1960,1970,etc : if their situation was worse,the regime would fall .

Why do you think that the Soviets supported the regime to the end ? Not because they were communists,but because in 1989 they were better of than in the past.
As a lot of Americans,you refuse to admit the truth,which is that a lot (maybe most) people prefer a dictator to democracy .It was so in the past, it is so today and it will always be so .

As Bertold Brecht said: erst kommt das Fressen und dan die Moral : first bread and than ethics .
December 8th, 2015  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Just curious what you agree to? The Russians are unlikely to engage large scale land forces against ISIS. Do you prefer an Iranian dominated ME. Even if the west were to allow it? Kind of exchanging one terrorist organization for another. The Syrian rebels are not a powerful military option but at least they like the Kurds are freedom fighters.

Unfortunately Turkey (and Iran I might add) will never support an independent Kurdistan since the Kurdistan also extends into Iran and Turkey.

However I have the humility to admit that Iím no authority on the ME, who is.
Hezbollah and ISIS are both terrorists, but not the same type of terrorist.

I'd go with the Iranian option myself. First of all Iran is Shiite not Sunni (and
the most violent groups are Sunni), secondly while Iran does support groups like Hezbollah its (and Hezbollahs) ultimate goals are political not religious.

This is important because it denotes a certain amount of reason, politics can always be negotiated, unlike the real Jihadist movements which will not negotiate with anybody on anything.

Hezbollah is anti-Israeli occupation, but it has no wider ambitions than that. They are also a lot more tolerant, (I'm not saying they are boy scouts) they are not the ones to cut your head off because you aren't one of them.
December 8th, 2015  
lljadw
 
The importance of the hostility between Sunni and Shii is much exaggerated .

It is not a problem of Sunni against Shii.
December 8th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Hezbollah and ISIS are both terrorists, but not the same type of terrorist.

I'd go with the Iranian option myself. First of all Iran is Shiite not Sunni (and
the most violent groups are Sunni), secondly while Iran does support groups like Hezbollah its (and Hezbollahs) ultimate goals are political not religious.

This is important because it denotes a certain amount of reason, politics can always be negotiated, unlike the real Jihadist movements which will not negotiate with anybody on anything.

Hezbollah is anti-Israeli occupation, but it has no wider ambitions than that. They are also a lot more tolerant, (I'm not saying they are boy scouts) they are not the ones to cut your head off because you aren't one of them.
I believe you are right they are both terrorist organizations. ISIS is the most despicable of any ME organization at this time. However I believe they eventually will run their course or be defeated. At least as far as their effort towards building a permanent Caliphate.

Hezbollah leaves a bad taste in my mouth from their killing the (250 or 300) odd Marines in Lebanon some years back.

I am not so certain that the Ayatollahs in Iran are all that rational? Even though things have normalized a bit in Iran from a few years back. The country is effectively a theocracy.
 


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