Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS) - Page 25




 
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Boots
 
December 6th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Because it is obvious : the 80 million (not 50 )Iranians have no democracy (the Islam condemns democracy) but are satisfied with material progress .

There are no democratic regimes with a population that is in majority Muslim .
December 6th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Besides,most of the world population is not enthusiastic about basic freedoms (which is an American invention) .And even in the US people would give up basic freedoms to have law and order and to have basic material needs satisfied .

For the majority of the world population basic freedoms are a luxury they can not afford .
December 6th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
You criticize the Shaw of Iran, but embrace the Ayatollahs who were at least as murderous as the Shaw ever was. You embrace the so called red revolutions saying where the US helped to install these murderous governments to counter these leftist. How many millions died – killed by N Korea. How many more would have died if they got their murderous hands on the south. How many were killed by the Columbian guerillas in their reign of terror. What about Grenada, Haiti, west and central Africa. At least the US tried in Somali what did New Zealand do? Have you no sense of balance man.
Now who is putting words in who's mouth?

I criticise the Shah because he was a western installed puppet that was so hated by his people that they booted him out I am less critical of the "Ayatollahs" because they are who the Iranians chose to replace the Shah with.
Basically I do not have a problem with them replacing our dictator with their dictator as it is their country they can do what ever the hell they like in it and when they are sick of them they can rise up and toss them out as well, it is their choice.

As for the rest you don't have much of a leg to stand on, deposing democratically elected popular governments because they were too "left" for America to tolerate is not something you should be proud of and is a shining beacon of the hypocrisy that is American foreign policy.

As for New Zealands involvement fortunately we have been smart enough until recently to stay in the background spying on our neighbours for you.

I lack balance?
You are the one who rants on about his "great" nation while it bombs and subverts its way around the world and then cries victim and looks confused when someone returns the favour. If I have told you once I have certainly told these forums a thousand times "cause and effect, nothing every occurs in a vacuum" or if you are a Newtonian I give you his third law "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Wake up.
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Boots
December 6th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
I can see your main goal is for a symbolic victory. You will likely never remove your anti-American blinders, preferring instead to continue your anti-American tirade. Thus further discussion has become pointless.
December 7th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Besides,most of the world population is not enthusiastic about basic freedoms (which is an American invention) .And even in the US people would give up basic freedoms to have law and order and to have basic material needs satisfied .

For the majority of the world population basic freedoms are a luxury they can not afford .
In other words, because you say so...

I'd love for you to come and try to take some of my "basic" freedoms...I'd love for you to try to impose your vision of how I should live...it would be the very last thing you ever did.
December 7th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
In other words, because you say so...

I'd love for you to come and try to take some of my "basic" freedoms...I'd love for you to try to impose your vision of how I should live...it would be the very last thing you ever did.
Oddly enough I 'sort' of agree with him, in recent years there has been a move towards security as a priority over everything else you only have to look at the lukewarm reaction to Snowden's revelations as an example.

I think had he been around in the late 1990s you would have seen a far different reaction to the information he released.

So I tend to think that "basic freedoms" have been steadily eroded since 2001 throughout the western world.
December 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
In other words, because you say so...

I'd love for you to come and try to take some of my "basic" freedoms...I'd love for you to try to impose your vision of how I should live...it would be the very last thing you ever did.
Says the man who is convinced that the whole world wants to follow the exemple of the US and who tries to impose by force his ideals on those who refuse to adopt the exemple of the US .

Says the man who hides the fact that the majority of the American voters are not interested in politics and remain at home every 4 years at the first tuesday after the first monday of november .

Your basic freedoms are a luxury most people can't afford and most people are not interested in or are hostile to .

Now he will pontificate indignantly about all those millions who emigrated to the US,forgetting (better :refusing to admit) that most of them did not came to the US to have basic freedoms,but to have a better material live .

And,interested readers will observe that he has not yet produced his list of basic freedoms (probably because he is not able to do it) .
December 7th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Says the man who is convinced that the whole world wants to follow the exemple of the US and who tries to impose by force his ideals on those who refuse to adopt the exemple of the US .

Says the man who hides the fact that the majority of the American voters are not interested in politics and remain at home every 4 years at the first tuesday after the first monday of november .

Your basic freedoms are a luxury most people can't afford and most people are not interested in or are hostile to .

Now he will pontificate indignantly about all those millions who emigrated to the US,forgetting (better :refusing to admit) that most of them did not came to the US to have basic freedoms,but to have a better material live .

And,interested readers will observe that he has not yet produced his list of basic freedoms (probably because he is not able to do it) .
Freedom is not free. Recall that Belgium was freed by the allies at a cost in blood from Nazi tyranny.
December 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
That's a red herring : before the war most Europeans lived in a dictatorial regime and most Belgians were partisan of a more authoritarian regime .

A lot of Americans (and especially the Liberals) are that convinced of the superiority of their own political system that they can't grasp that other people (the majority of the world population) prefer their own political system .

Why should it be the business of the US if the Syrians, the Libyans, the North Koreans preferred their own dictator ? As long as these dictators are no threat for the US,the only sensible policy is to leave them alone and to do business with them .

But a lot of people in the US are still imbued by the words of Lincoln who said (wrongly of course) that the US could not survive half free ans half slave and they are convinced (wrongly) that the world can not survive half slave and half free :the world trend has always been that the world was swarming with dictators and that democracies were exceptions .
December 7th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
That's a red herring : before the war most Europeans lived in a dictatorial regime and most Belgians were partisan of a more authoritarian regime .
41 thousand Belgium civilian were killed by the Germans in WW2 ~ ˝ of them were non-Jewish. And you’re not grateful for the liberation and democracy that resulted? Your country has never suffered to this extreme in its history, ungrateful

Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Why should it be the business of the US if the Syrians, the Libyans, the North Koreans preferred their own dictator ? As long as these dictators are no threat for the US,the only sensible policy is to leave them alone and to do business with them .

But a lot of people in the US are still imbued by the words of Lincoln who said (wrongly of course) that the US could not survive half free ans half slave and they are convinced (wrongly) that the world can not survive half slave and half free :the world trend has always been that the world was swarming with dictators and that democracies were exceptions .
Does that make it right? Do you really think the people of N Korea are happy with millions dying of starvation and 10’s of thousands being executed?
You even find a way to twist Presidents Lincolns words. How low will you go.
 


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