Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS) - Page 21




 
--
Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
 
December 3rd, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Just curious what you agree to? The Russians are unlikely to engage large scale land forces against ISIS. Do you prefer an Iranian dominated ME. Even if the west were to allow it? Kind of exchanging one terrorist organization for another. The Syrian rebels are not a powerful military option but at least they like the Kurds are freedom fighters.

Unfortunately Turkey (and Iran I might add) will never support an independent Kurdistan since the Kurdistan also extends into Iran and Turkey.

However I have the humility to admit that I’m no authority on the ME, who is.
I think the Russians having to deal with the quagmire that is the ME would do a lot of our deterrent mission for us. They spend a lot of money and time investing in an unwinnable situation which means they aren't growing, spending, or researching in many other areas...plus it gives us political and diplomatic leverage against them when they inevitably make a big mess of things...or by a stroke of luck they start to fix it and then they make more markets open up for us to sell our crap to...isn't that what this is about anyways?

I don't believe the Iranians to be the boogeymen that they are made out to be. Their population is vastly under the age of 25 and with the information age...their authoritarian government is going to have enough problems on their hands if they don't start to secularize. Of course, if we keep meddling in their affairs and give them a reason to hate us...then their government can simply blame all their problems on us...I would much prefer to deal with Persians in the ME than the Arabs who have actively supported movements against us AS OUR ALLIES!

I know this is anecdotal, but the Iranians I have met all over the world... were largely professionals and didn't have a chip on their shoulders... However, many of the Arabs I have met do have a chip and aren't professionals at the rate that I see Persians...That is in both the work force and academia.

As much as I would like to support an independent Kurdistan, I know the reality is that it simply cannot happen. Not now at least. I love the Kurds and if given the opportunity, I would go fight alongside them...However, from a geopolitical standpoint...it would just make the ME more of a flash point for the time being than it already is for them to be granted independence. That is a conversation for later...and I think the Kurds understand that.

To Monty, it certainly isn't as easy as letting them give up and going home...however, I think it is a reasonable suspicion that an 18 year old fighter trying to put food on the table for his family and who surrenders is probably a good candidate to be left alone once they put down their rifles...The one's preaching at the Mosques, organizing their own groups, and planning operations are the ones we need to keep in detention centers and sent to international courts systems to be made accountable for what they have done.

I know in the places the radicals show up...there isn't a lot of other options for people who have a family to make a living outside of complicity with the radical group...unless they want to put their loved ones in a tremendous amount of danger. Even then, there are no guarantees and you may still end up losing a loved one on a trumped up charge...It is tyranny and it works especially well when a family member can be held as leverage.

When I was in Iraq and AQI was in charge of large portions of Al Anbar and Ramadi they used to stop bus traffic on the way to and from Syria. They would shake everyone down and anyone who had a Shi'a sounding name would be made to get out of the bus. They would send the bus on its' way and take the ones who they forced off the bus down to the Euphrates river or into a back alley and they would kill them all. One particularly gruesome scene is when an entire family was killed and it was apparent they drowned the children in front of their parents, then strangled the wife after raping her in front of her husband...then the husband was tortured and beheaded...They would leave these remains laying around for people or us to find knowing it would strike terror in the hearts of the locals and it would show us that there was nothing we could do to stop them...and in many respects they were right at the time...

There were so many we found this way...helpless

So if a guy who fought for a time as an insurgent to support his family because the alternative was being stopped on a bus and being singled out at random, and he decides to surrender...and after vetting him I see he is just a normal guy...well, I have no problem with that guy going home or fleeing elsewhere to try and continue his life...
December 3rd, 2015  
lljadw
 
The Shiite are as bad as the Sunnite .They are tweedledum and tweedledee.
December 3rd, 2015  
lljadw
 
Obama is claiming that ISIS is contained,but even 2 of his apostles (Amanpour and Diane Feinstein) are forced to admit that ISIS is growing .

50 US special forces and a few aircraft will not stop/defeat ISIS .
--
Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
December 3rd, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I think the Russians having to deal with the quagmire that is the ME would do a lot of our deterrent mission for us. They spend a lot of money and time investing in an unwinnable situation which means they aren't growing, spending, or researching in many other areas...plus it gives us political and diplomatic leverage against them when they inevitably make a big mess of things...or by a stroke of luck they start to fix it and then they make more markets open up for us to sell our crap to...isn't that what this is about anyways?

I don't believe the Iranians to be the boogeymen that they are made out to be. Their population is vastly under the age of 25 and with the information age...their authoritarian government is going to have enough problems on their hands if they don't start to secularize. Of course, if we keep meddling in their affairs and give them a reason to hate us...then their government can simply blame all their problems on us...I would much prefer to deal with Persians in the ME than the Arabs who have actively supported movements against us AS OUR ALLIES!

I know this is anecdotal, but the Iranians I have met all over the world... were largely professionals and didn't have a chip on their shoulders... However, many of the Arabs I have met do have a chip and aren't professionals at the rate that I see Persians...That is in both the work force and academia.

As much as I would like to support an independent Kurdistan, I know the reality is that it simply cannot happen. Not now at least. I love the Kurds and if given the opportunity, I would go fight alongside them...However, from a geopolitical standpoint...it would just make the ME more of a flash point for the time being than it already is for them to be granted independence. That is a conversation for later...and I think the Kurds understand that.

To Monty, it certainly isn't as easy as letting them give up and going home...however, I think it is a reasonable suspicion that an 18 year old fighter trying to put food on the table for his family and who surrenders is probably a good candidate to be left alone once they put down their rifles...The one's preaching at the Mosques, organizing their own groups, and planning operations are the ones we need to keep in detention centers and sent to international courts systems to be made accountable for what they have done.

I know in the places the radicals show up...there isn't a lot of other options for people who have a family to make a living outside of complicity with the radical group...unless they want to put their loved ones in a tremendous amount of danger. Even then, there are no guarantees and you may still end up losing a loved one on a trumped up charge...It is tyranny and it works especially well when a family member can be held as leverage.

When I was in Iraq and AQI was in charge of large portions of Al Anbar and Ramadi they used to stop bus traffic on the way to and from Syria. They would shake everyone down and anyone who had a Shi'a sounding name would be made to get out of the bus. They would send the bus on its' way and take the ones who they forced off the bus down to the Euphrates river or into a back alley and they would kill them all. One particularly gruesome scene is when an entire family was killed and it was apparent they drowned the children in front of their parents, then strangled the wife after raping her in front of her husband...then the husband was tortured and beheaded...They would leave these remains laying around for people or us to find knowing it would strike terror in the hearts of the locals and it would show us that there was nothing we could do to stop them...and in many respects they were right at the time...

There were so many we found this way...helpless

So if a guy who fought for a time as an insurgent to support his family because the alternative was being stopped on a bus and being singled out at random decides to surrender...and after vetting him I see he is just a normal guy...well, I have no problem with that guy going home or fleeing elsewhere to try and continue his life...
I tend to agree with most of this reply, with the exception of the Iranians who still hold Americans hostage. It's a shame you were subjected to such atrocities while in the service of our country. I thank you for your service.

I have meet Arabs from many numerous nations in both academic and military setting. I was impressed by the Saudi Arabians, but not so much by some the others.
December 4th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
The Shiite are as bad as the Sunnite .They are tweedledum and tweedledee.
Nothing of importance to add...as always.

That is all you got out of all I wrote? Wow....just wow. You're a special kind of despicable aren't you?
December 4th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Your post and the previous ones prove only that you have swallowed totally the Obama propaganda of the bad Sunni and the good Shia.

Reality is

1) That Sunni are not worse than Shia : who was attacking the Kurds with chemical weapons ? The Shia Army of Saddam .

2) That the atrocities committed by both parties are unimportant for the average Muslim : we call these atrocities, for the average Muslim,Sunni and Shia, there atrocities are only their old customs of war .

3)As these atrocities do not touch the average Muslim,they should not influence our policy in the ME.


4)As you probably don't know (because the Obama propaganda remains silent about this subject,for obvious reasons):there is no war between Sunni and Shia : when Saddam invaded Shia iran, his army consisted mainly of
Shia .


5)Behind ISIS are the rulers of Tehran : criminals (not important) but also hostile to the West and very dangerous .

They are supporting ISIS against the Shia of the south and the hostile Shia/Sunni government of Bagdad against ISIS and they reinforce their influence in the north and in the south of Iraq,a win/win situation .

6)The policy of Obama (and his accomplices in Europe) is suicidal : if Iran dominates the ME, it is the start of WWIV.

Why is Obama supporting Iran ? Not because he cares about the Shia/Sunni,probably he thinks that Shia is a paella and Sunni a pizza .

The explanation is very simple : his hatred of the republicans and conservatives in the US .

Bush supported Israel and SA and blocked Iran, Obama is supporting Iran and attacks SA and Israel .


But of course, you will continue to pontificate about democracy, liberty,etc,things who have no place in the ME .
December 4th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I think the Russians having to deal with the quagmire that is the ME would do a lot of our deterrent mission for us. They spend a lot of money and time investing in an unwinnable situation which means they aren't growing, spending, or researching in many other areas...plus it gives us political and diplomatic leverage against them when they inevitably make a big mess of things...or by a stroke of luck they start to fix it and then they make more markets open up for us to sell our crap to...isn't that what this is about anyways?

I don't believe the Iranians to be the boogeymen that they are made out to be. Their population is vastly under the age of 25 and with the information age...their authoritarian government is going to have enough problems on their hands if they don't start to secularize. Of course, if we keep meddling in their affairs and give them a reason to hate us...then their government can simply blame all their problems on us...I would much prefer to deal with Persians in the ME than the Arabs who have actively supported movements against us AS OUR ALLIES!

I know this is anecdotal, but the Iranians I have met all over the world... were largely professionals and didn't have a chip on their shoulders... However, many of the Arabs I have met do have a chip and aren't professionals at the rate that I see Persians...That is in both the work force and academia.

As much as I would like to support an independent Kurdistan, I know the reality is that it simply cannot happen. Not now at least. I love the Kurds and if given the opportunity, I would go fight alongside them...However, from a geopolitical standpoint...it would just make the ME more of a flash point for the time being than it already is for them to be granted independence. That is a conversation for later...and I think the Kurds understand that.

To Monty, it certainly isn't as easy as letting them give up and going home...however, I think it is a reasonable suspicion that an 18 year old fighter trying to put food on the table for his family and who surrenders is probably a good candidate to be left alone once they put down their rifles...The one's preaching at the Mosques, organizing their own groups, and planning operations are the ones we need to keep in detention centers and sent to international courts systems to be made accountable for what they have done.

I know in the places the radicals show up...there isn't a lot of other options for people who have a family to make a living outside of complicity with the radical group...unless they want to put their loved ones in a tremendous amount of danger. Even then, there are no guarantees and you may still end up losing a loved one on a trumped up charge...It is tyranny and it works especially well when a family member can be held as leverage.

When I was in Iraq and AQI was in charge of large portions of Al Anbar and Ramadi they used to stop bus traffic on the way to and from Syria. They would shake everyone down and anyone who had a Shi'a sounding name would be made to get out of the bus. They would send the bus on its' way and take the ones who they forced off the bus down to the Euphrates river or into a back alley and they would kill them all. One particularly gruesome scene is when an entire family was killed and it was apparent they drowned the children in front of their parents, then strangled the wife after raping her in front of her husband...then the husband was tortured and beheaded...They would leave these remains laying around for people or us to find knowing it would strike terror in the hearts of the locals and it would show us that there was nothing we could do to stop them...and in many respects they were right at the time...

There were so many we found this way...helpless

So if a guy who fought for a time as an insurgent to support his family because the alternative was being stopped on a bus and being singled out at random, and he decides to surrender...and after vetting him I see he is just a normal guy...well, I have no problem with that guy going home or fleeing elsewhere to try and continue his life...
I agree with what you say and I want to add a few thoughts about your last part. There are empirical instances when the reconciliation processes have worked well to get warring parties to work together after the end of hostilities. South Africa is often used as a reference, but there are even better references to make. South America's many military juntas and when they shifted from a dictatorship to a democratic elected governments. Many problems remains, yet they are better off now than they were in the past.

Usually, Hague prefer to prosecute leaders and not the people on the grass rot level. It is unpractical to go after all people members of ISIS. However, it is important to understand them and what makes them tick.
December 4th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Your post and the previous ones prove only that you have swallowed totally the Obama propaganda of the bad Sunni and the good Shia.

Reality is

1) That Sunni are not worse than Shia : who was attacking the Kurds with chemical weapons ? The Shia Army of Saddam .

2) That the atrocities committed by both parties are unimportant for the average Muslim : we call these atrocities, for the average Muslim,Sunni and Shia, there atrocities are only their old customs of war .

3)As these atrocities do not touch the average Muslim,they should not influence our policy in the ME.


4)As you probably don't know (because the Obama propaganda remains silent about this subject,for obvious reasons):there is no war between Sunni and Shia : when Saddam invaded Shia iran, his army consisted mainly of
Shia .


5)Behind ISIS are the rulers of Tehran : criminals (not important) but also hostile to the West and very dangerous .

They are supporting ISIS against the Shia of the south and the hostile Shia/Sunni government of Bagdad against ISIS and they reinforce their influence in the north and in the south of Iraq,a win/win situation .

6)The policy of Obama (and his accomplices in Europe) is suicidal : if Iran dominates the ME, it is the start of WWIV.

Why is Obama supporting Iran ? Not because he cares about the Shia/Sunni,probably he thinks that Shia is a paella and Sunni a pizza .

The explanation is very simple : his hatred of the republicans and conservatives in the US .

Bush supported Israel and SA and blocked Iran, Obama is supporting Iran and attacks SA and Israel .


But of course, you will continue to pontificate about democracy, liberty,etc,things who have no place in the ME .
Strawman...Strawman...Strawman

When did I ever say anything about the merits or lack thereof between the Sunni and Shi'a?

I was in a predominantly Sunni area that had large swaths of their area controlled by the predecessors of ISIS. Their ideology, method of terror, administration, tactics etc are almost identical...which makes sense since many of the current leaders in ISIS came from AQI, AAS,ISI, etc... This thread is talking about dealing with ISIS...I was pointing out how it isn't as simple to blame the people living in their controlled areas for complicity when they are between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure if I was in Kut, Sadr city, Najaf, or Basra I would have used an example of sectarianism of the Shi'a on the Sunni...But that wasn't what I saw even though I knew it happened because spent almost all my 3 years in Iraq in Sunni controlled areas.

Perhaps Obama orchestrated all the dead bodies that I saw and handled too?...*

Perhaps Obama was just pulling my strings while he twisted his mustache and laughed while I did his dirty work?...*

Yeah, Obama definitely put blinders on my eyes so I could ONLY see one type of problem...ever
...*


*Sarcasm

Sometimes I wish LeMask would come back, at least he had the integrity to admit he was crazy sometimes...Although he was a pain in the rear...he wasn't dumb.

I don't know what you are...I'm not even sure you're human.

I am legitimately concerned for you...I am very curious what your personal relationships look like.
December 4th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Strawman...Strawman...Strawman

When did I ever say anything about the merits or lack thereof between the Sunni and Shi'a?

I was in a predominantly Sunni area that had large swaths of their area controlled by the predecessors of ISIS. Their ideology, method of terror, administration, tactics etc are almost identical...which makes sense since many of the current leaders in ISIS came from AQI, AAS,ISI, etc... This thread is talking about dealing with ISIS...I was pointing out how it isn't as simple to blame the people living in their controlled areas for complicity when they are between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure if I was in Kut, Sadr city, Najaf, or Basra I would have used an example of sectarianism of the Shi'a on the Sunni...But that wasn't what I saw even though I knew it happened because spent almost all my 3 years in Iraq in Sunni controlled areas.

Perhaps Obama orchestrated all the dead bodies that I saw and handled too?...*

Perhaps Obama was just pulling my strings while he twisted his mustache and laughed while I did his dirty work?...*

Yeah, Obama definitely put blinders on my eyes so I could ONLY see one type of problem...ever
...*


*Sarcasm

Sometimes I wish LeMask would come back, at least he had the integrity to admit he was crazy sometimes...Although he was a pain in the rear...he wasn't dumb.

I don't know what you are...I'm not even sure you're human.

I am legitimately concerned for you...I am very curious what your personal relationships look like.
Sarcasm doesn't work well here, I have tried and failed. The last sentence of yours, are you sure you want to know?

Off topic, have you decided about your academic career yet?
December 4th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Sarcasm doesn't work well here, I have tried and failed. The last sentence of yours, are you sure you want to know?

Off topic, have you decided about your academic career yet?

Yes and no. I might be medically discharged from the Army in the next year or so because I am having quite a lot of compounding issues with injuries I have sustained over the years while serving...I don't know what my career looks like at this point.

However, if I do remain in the Army I will either go to the Foreign Area Officer side or the Strategic Studies/ Planning side. (called a functional area in the US Army) Both will require a graduate degree in international/strategic studies. Which is fine by me. I will also likely get another Masters in History as well while I am fulfilling those duties in order to better specialize in those fields (depending on what I end up with). Then once I retire (which would be about the time I'm done with that duty) I would go back to shoot for a Doctorate.

If I get out because of medical, I plan on staying in school for History until I have a Doctorate...I'm currently talking to some Universities right now trying to get set up in order to be able to pull the trigger where I need it in the event that this happens.

When it is all said and done, I am interested in teaching at the University level...I also have contemplated doing some historical/analysis writing as well. I don't know, we shall see
 


Similar Topics
Syrian Kurds battle Islamic State in northeast
U.S. fears Islamic State is making serious inroads in Libya
Islamic State says it's holding 'Israeli spy' in Syria
Iranian Phantom jet strikes the Islamic State in Iraq - IHS Jane's 360
Islamic State says executes second Lebanese soldier