Obama's Health Care Plan Outlaws Private Insurance

5.56X45mm

5.56X45mm

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President Obama has assured Americans that they can keep their private insurance if they want to but, he didn't mention the process by which to do so. He also didn't mention that those with Individual private coverage cannot make any changes once the option is chosen. This is a very good reason why we should not count on our legislators to read and interpret Bills for us. We must be pro-active and read the bill ourselves even if it is 1,018 pages long.


Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.


When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.


It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:


"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.


So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.
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I've spent the entire day today and I didn't even make a dent in reading this bill..... but page 16, SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. Does flat out state that private medical insurance is going to be a thing of the past.


Click Here to read the entire bill.

H.R. 3200: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009
 
Does flat out state that private medical insurance is going to be a thing of the past. -5.56

AMEN, HALLELUJAH!!!

5.56 I of course don't wish you ill will, but your blind obsession to one of the worst systems of health care for a 1st world country is just breathtaking. All I can say is for you to wait for the day that you or someone close to you needs an operation that costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars cash of medical expenses and watch that decision get passed out of the hands of your doctor to Debbie in accounting who decide that a funeral (yours) is cheaper for the company then it is for them to save your life. The WHO has rated US Heath care the 36th just below Cuba. I sincerely hope you don't have to find out this the hard way, but there are thousands of Americans who have.

And thats of course excluding the people that cannot afford to pay the premiums and have no health insurance at all.
 
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The insurance is not worth the paper the contract is printed on.
They hardly cover a damned thing and it's almost like you have to have an accident in the exact way the insurance company envisions, but of course if that happens questions arise as to if you did it on purpose!
The monthly payments are usually outrageous and it's better off that you just simply put that sort of money that you'd pay an insurance company away in another savings account to cover medical expenses and hope you don't get into anything serious for another 10 years. Yes, it won't cover everything but it'll probably cover more than the insurance company will.
I've lived in a lot of countries and been to hospitals in those countries as well and the only countries I found worse than the US are indeed 3rd world countries you'd never consider comparing with the US.

Seriously, there is hardly a single good thing to say about the US healthcare system. There's a LOT of good things about America, but the healthcare system is just not one of them.
One of my people from the Marines went over to the US, oddly enough, close to DC, and he told me that he heard that medical system is really bad in the US and he asked if there was any advice I had on what was good and what wasn't. I told him the unfortunate fact is that there simply isn't much good news when it comes to health care in the US.
The only good news is, if you can afford it, they're competent.
 
I pay $110 a month.... choose my own doctors, choose my own plan, etc...

I don't need the Government to tell me what I can and can't do.

Mmarsh.... it's not about the healthcare system. IT'S ABOUT GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING MY :cen:ING LIFE!

But hey.... in the end you're just a ...err... in the end I'll keep my mouth shut so I don't violate CoC.....

If you have nothing nice to say just don't say anything.

I threw out my back a couple of months ago..... went to my doctor, waited forty five minutes because he was seeing someone else. He saw me, gave me a injection of a muscle relaxant and proscribed me some pain killers and muscle relaxant. Total price out of my pocket for co-pay was $50. My Insurance paid the rest.... I threw out my back at 1pm, went to the Doctor's Office at 3pm, got my meds and treatment at 4pm.

I like what I have.... I don't want some douchebag in DC deciding how, when, and why I see my doctor.
 
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5.56X45mm said:
I pay $110 a month.... choose my own doctors, choose my own plan, etc...
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I see what you are saying. It seems that if a health care plan is going to be out there it needs to be universal and actually be able to be used.

Not all people can afford to pay $100 (and in some cases a lot more) per month for health care...but I also don't see how this is really helping them either, unless they have something severe happen.
 
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You pay $110 per month for medical insurance?
You're getting VERY badly ripped off.
Here's the thing, if I'm not happy with what the government is offering me, I can pay out of my own pocket and choose my own treatment, but I've never had this sort of problem. I've gotten the right kind of treatment.
No one tells me when to see a doctor either. I show up with the problem and even in a heavily densely populated place like Seoul, the wait time isn't very long. If I go to a major hospital where it services litterally millions of people, the wait time is a little longer but if I go to a neighborhood hospital (still great service) it's practically instantaneous.
Paying $110 per month is about $1,320 per year. For some people, that's about 2/3rds of a month's salary.

The government might trash talk about private insurance being a thing of the past, but the truth is, private insurance is getting pressure to become more effective instead of a massively expensive bureaucracy. The beauty of having a working government version is that it automatically gives the private sector competition regardless of where they open up shop.
If companies cannot cater to our demands, we can just give them the finger and go off and get the public service. If the companies can deliver to our demands (high quality, low cost), then we will gladly employ their services.

Let me explain to you as to why it is that private health insurance doesn't work very well.
First, you have the patients who usually know how likely they are to be sick (family history etc).
Then you have the insurance companies who don't know you that well.
The people who are not likely to get sick or hurt generally skip out on insurance because they'd actually lose more money paying insurance than if they just paid out of their regular wallet.
What happens is the people who hold insurance get sick and injured often, just as predicted.
The insurance company tries to severely restrict payout, but this hurts their image and even less people buy insurance (basically the reason why I don't buy a policy).
But still the payout is considerable and the monthly rate goes up.
Even less people can afford it. More people cancel their insurance.
Monthly rate goes up even more.
And it pretty much spirals out of control.

When I made about $3,000 a month, I paid about $100 in taxes and that paid for the medical insurance, the roads, retirement fund, the military, the fire department, the police force... basically the whole package. For $100 a month. That left me about 2,900 to do everything else. I'd say for a hundred bucks that's a great deal.
But having said that, there is private insurance in South Korea as well. But they're not very popular and of course, they're insanely expensive. Good news is I don't have to worry about it.
 
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And what about a medium term? Something combining best things of both systems? Would it be possible somehow?
 
the_13th_redneck said:
You pay $110 per month?
You're getting VERY badly ripped off.
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I'm 25 years old, I smoke, I drink, I eat meat, I work in a high risk hazardous profession... $110 isn't bad for someone like me..... I can afford it and I only make $45,000 as my take home pay. Yet you know how I live my life. What I spend my money on, etc.....
 
5.56X45mm said:
I pay $110 a month.... choose my own doctors, choose my own plan, etc...

I don't need the Government to tell me what I can and can't do.

Mmarsh.... it's not about the healthcare system. IT'S ABOUT GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING MY :cen:ING LIFE!

But hey.... in the end you're just a ...err... in the end I'll keep my mouth shut so I don't violate CoC.....

If you have nothing nice to say just don't say anything.

I threw out my back a couple of months ago..... went to my doctor, waited forty five minutes because he was seeing someone else. He saw me, gave me a injection of a muscle relaxant and proscribed me some pain killers and muscle relaxant. Total price out of my pocket for co-pay was $50. My Insurance paid the rest.... I threw out my back at 1pm, went to the Doctor's Office at 3pm, got my meds and treatment at 4pm.

I like what I have.... I don't want some douchebag in DC deciding how, when, and why I see my doctor.
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My, slightly Defensive aren't we? And where did I say something insulting?

I was only speaking the truth and sometimes the truth isn't always pleasant. Believe me, when I say when don't have something nice to say I don't hold back. You should know me by now, I am very direct, and I don't f*** around. If I wanted to insult you there would not have been "I wish you no ill-will" in my post. Get it?

And your response only validates my point. $110 a month for health-care is a RIP-OFF. This is exactly what I am saying. Nobody should be paying $110 a month for healthcare, that's more then certain people make in a week. Perhaps YOU can afford it, but not everyone can.

So lets use your example, because I don't think you have any idea how badly you're getting screwed.

You injured your back (been there). You waited 3 HOURS and $50 (plus your $110 premium) in order to get some pain medication. So basically you health bills (barring any other health costs, you didn't mention) was $160 that month.

Now I have back problems too and France has a socialized system. The last time I went to the doctor for my back the cost was 50 Euros (no wait as everything is by appointment only) I was reimbursed 95-100% and the painkillers cost 10 Euros, of which I believe I paid 2-3 Euros. I also got two days paid off work so that I could properly heal. That's it.

So $160 a month via AETNA vs about $12 through a socialized system. Ill say it again: You're getting screwed.

So instead of some government douche bag deciding how, when, and why you see your doctor, you've settled on some douche-bag bean-counter in Hartford CT, whose doing exactly the same and making some big bucks off you to boot ($31 Billion so far this year!). I think I'll go with the douche in Washington.
 
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If theres gonna be ANY govt health care program in the United States, it should be modeled after Frances Govt Health care plan. Not built by somebody who is very good at sending this country into a unrecoverable financial orbit.
You should be able to choose whatever health care you wish!
And vets should NOT have to carry private health care to pay for service related injuries.
 
Yes and guess what? If I went to the hospital for back problems without insurance it probably would have set me back maybe $250?
It's very expensive if you think about it but considering how expensive private health insurance is, in the long run it's actually cheaper (as long as I don't get dragged to the hospital every month).
$110 is a rip off. I'm just surprised that 5.56 is actually getting covered.
Mmarsh, I don't think 5.56 waited for 3 hours unless I'm missing something here. He got injured at 1PM and got his treatment at 4PM. Which isn't all that bad considering he arrived at the doc's office at 3PM.
But the price...
It's the reason why I only get basic cable. Anything more is simply not worth it the money.
They all add up and it's just far too expensive.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Yes and guess what? If I went to the hospital for back problems without insurance it probably would have set me back maybe $250?
It's very expensive if you think about it but considering how expensive private health insurance is, in the long run it's actually cheaper (as long as I don't get dragged to the hospital every month).
$110 is a rip off. I'm just surprised that 5.56 is actually getting covered.
Mmarsh, I don't think 5.56 waited for 3 hours unless I'm missing something here. He got injured at 1PM and got his treatment at 4PM. Which isn't all that bad considering he arrived at the doc's office at 3PM.
But the price...
It's the reason why I only get basic cable. Anything more is simply not worth it the money.
They all add up and it's just far too expensive.
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$250? That's just for taking up space in the waiting room. Just a few months back my brother went to the Emergency Room for a broken finger; tests came back negative. After the Insurance company took money off, the bill was still about $200. The point is that Healthcare costs here in the US are insane, because many of the doctors themselves have to pay so much for malpractice insurance.

Plus, if you don't have insurance, you end up GOING to the hospital every month, because that is the only place you can get treatment for anything. Be it influenza, a broken finger, or an auto accident, the only place that will treat you is the emergency room, which is VERY expensive. The problem is how inefficient the system is; if you can't afford insurance, no doctor will see you.
 
Well I work in Spanish National Health System actually. My job is like specialist in emergencies and Working Health, but currently only active in Hospital Emergencies.

As the french mate refered this system is socialized, so all medical treatment are just free, including the pharmacy, complementary tests (Xray, blood tests...all). Only after hospital treatments you have to pay a minimum for pharmacy treatments and if you are in age of retirement you pay nothing.

During your sickness you earn your money at home. 100% if you are in thet fot a working accident and a little less if it obeys to a common disease and longs for some time.

At this moment it looked wonderful until a few years. People think that just with their government taxes all the rights are on their side and they abuse the system. So system is loosing response capacity.

Everybody wants to be seen by specialists, so time for being watched is overfloaded, when people notices they have to wait for a month or 3 monts, ot whatever depending the speciality...they just go to emergencies, colapsying the system.

Many people have their own private insurances else if they can afford them.

At this point I think american system is wonderful in technology, but just made for rich people. Probably if you are with a basic insurance and have a bad disease it won´t be covered and then you can die slowly, that won´t happen in NHS, or simply you have not covered a neurosurgery insurance, the cost of that could be perhaps 2 hundreds thousand dollars. Most people cant afford that.

For me american way is not the best, even I think is quite bad.

I think there is a moment at least in European NHS that must be given an answer to this problems which are destroying Health System also. Perhaps people who overabuse some kind of services with not any reason but being watched and obtain their test in a fast way should be invited by taxes to cooperate in that abuse...it´s so complicated to look for solutions now in a post, but NHS are floating but nearly sinking for some abuse.

Best
 
That's what I mean partial coverage by the government, not full coverage.
If it's 100% free, it's got its own serious issues as well.
Too many people clog the system needlessly and it drains the country of funds too heavily.
 
You guys think paying $110 a month is high..... what about Car Insurance? I was paying close to $2,000 a year for it.... That came out to $166 a month. Why don't we have the FED pay that.... The majority of the nation drives.
 
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