Obama's Health Care Plan Outlaws Private Insurance

Because you can use public transportation. The trend is that they're trying to reduce the number of cars on the street, so there is no incentive to subsidize car insurance. Of course this varies from state to state and also county to county. Some places, you really can't live without a car. But if you live in the city, odds are you can do without it.
Maybe for the places where you really DO need a car, with the appropriate evidence, you should be able to get a refund for auto insurance from the government. Not too bad of an idea. Not that many people live in those remote places anyway. Suburbs don't count, but most of Alaska does.
Although you can live without a car, you probably can't live without getting dragged to the hospital at some point.
Also, you can know whether or not you're going to buy a car. That's your choice. But suddenly getting a major injury through an unforseen accident (a drunk driver plowing into your house and pwning you as you're on your couch watching TV for example) is not so predictable. Also smaller injuries are going to happen and it's best that you're insured.
That's the difference.
 
Solideo said:
Well I work in Spanish National Health System actually. My job is like specialist in emergencies and Working Health, but currently only active in Hospital Emergencies.

As the french mate refered this system is socialized, so all medical treatment are just free, including the pharmacy, complementary tests (Xray, blood tests...all). Only after hospital treatments you have to pay a minimum for pharmacy treatments and if you are in age of retirement you pay nothing.

During your sickness you earn your money at home. 100% if you are in thet fot a working accident and a little less if it obeys to a common disease and longs for some time.

At this moment it looked wonderful until a few years. People think that just with their government taxes all the rights are on their side and they abuse the system. So system is loosing response capacity.

Everybody wants to be seen by specialists, so time for being watched is overfloaded, when people notices they have to wait for a month or 3 monts, ot whatever depending the speciality...they just go to emergencies, colapsying the system.

Many people have their own private insurances else if they can afford them.

At this point I think american system is wonderful in technology, but just made for rich people. Probably if you are with a basic insurance and have a bad disease it won´t be covered and then you can die slowly, that won´t happen in NHS, or simply you have not covered a neurosurgery insurance, the cost of that could be perhaps 2 hundreds thousand dollars. Most people cant afford that.

For me american way is not the best, even I think is quite bad.

I think there is a moment at least in European NHS that must be given an answer to this problems which are destroying Health System also. Perhaps people who overabuse some kind of services with not any reason but being watched and obtain their test in a fast way should be invited by taxes to cooperate in that abuse...it´s so complicated to look for solutions now in a post, but NHS are floating but nearly sinking for some abuse.

Best
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And your health system works right? picture this,the Spanish Government comes to the United States, sets up the national health care plan for us, gets everything rolling perfectly, then goes back to Spain, three months have passed, the US govt is now caring for its health care plan, nobody wants to enrol in it anymore cause its Fu**ed up worse than polio, Why? cause the govt of the United States can do a lot of good things when they try to, but when it comes to health care the govt is a bright as a burnt out light bulb.
I really think the only reason Obama wants national health care is so his mom can go to the hospital for free.
 
5.56X45mm said:
You guys think paying $110 a month is high..... what about Car Insurance? I was paying close to $2,000 a year for it.... That came out to $166 a month. Why don't we have the FED pay that.... The majority of the nation drives.
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Because driving is a privilege not a right. It might be necessary in certain parts of the country but its still a privilege. And as 13th Redneck pointed out many if not most areas do have *some* level of public transportation, even in small towns.
 
Note "solidio's" comment, everybody wants a Specialist(being it's free) so the system gets backed up for months, That's one problem that many point out.
 
Perhaps an alternative to a full national health service would be to charge for health care in relation to income rather than make it totally free. That way those most in need will be able to find the money to pay, and those with relatively insignificant problems won't clog up the waiting lists and Doctors surgeries.

The UK state sponsored health services is not totally free for those who work. Most people need to pay for prescription medicines, spectacles, dental care and hospital car parking fees. Everyone has to pay for non essential services in hospital such as TV. If you wish to have alternative treatments not regarded as cost effective you have to pay whatever your circumstances.

Everyone can pay privately to see a specialist more quickly, and for a longer period, although this will usually be the same person as on the state scheme. You can also pay for a personal hospital ward with more 'window dressing' although these hospitals are usually smaller and less well equipped than the state funded ones.

I pay for a health-care scheme which has some but not all the benefits of full private health-care for about £15 a month. This relies heavily on the state scheme in practice.

These extra charges and minor benefits of private health-care, means in effect the UK is a something of a halfway house, although most people still support and predominantly use the state funded scheme.

The cost of state health-care is soaring as more treatments become available, although I guess this is also true of insurance premiums.
 
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wolfen said:
And your health system works right? picture this,the Spanish Government comes to the United States, sets up the national health care plan for us, gets everything rolling perfectly, then goes back to Spain, three months have passed, the US govt is now caring for its health care plan, nobody wants to enrol in it anymore cause its Fu**ed up worse than polio, Why? cause the govt of the United States can do a lot of good things when they try to, but when it comes to health care the govt is a bright as a burnt out light bulb.
I really think the only reason Obama wants national health care is so his mom can go to the hospital for free.
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Our NHS is actually drowning, even most regional zones which asume their own health cares offer different services, for example: vacunations, or simply a change of sex surgery can be made in one region different to another.

Other problem actually is the mass of illegal inmigrants which are given a sanity card and that mostly use the emergencies entrance for all.

Also the Spanish citizens abuse the system because we really pay for it with our annual taxes and governments along the times are selling that health cares increase in guaranties and services and that´s a real lie.

Now most regional autonomies use the public private concerts (they contract servives of health paying less than they pay by their own, so it´s semi public-semi private)

Of course professionals of health suffer this like a lost battle, NHS is good when people know how to use it and do it correctly. My personal point of view is that we should go to a partial payment of services used. So if you require to be seen by an specialist for some not emergency sickness, you ought to pay some for that, it´s the only way to mantain this alive.

In other way I think for people with low salaries it´s not right to see how their kids die with a cancer because they have no money to pay for the medical cares.

Nothing is perfect in this world, anyway I think Obama is watching too much to our actual president which it´s a person a think is ruining Spain.

Best
 
The Other Guy said:
Why don't we do what Taiwan did; send out folks to study different nationalized systems and take the best of each of them?
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That´s a good idea, but think we are talking about bussiness and lots of billion dollars in play. Anyway I think NHS is not bad if it´s used allright, althoug people could be able to choose between belonging private insurances in their own risk or belonging to NHS through taxes to State.
 
A lot of this is vote buying & increasing Govt control of the peoples lives. Vote for me & I'll give you free health care(& make you dependant on me for your health care). Ban guns & make you dependant on me for youe safety. Ban cars & make you dependant on me for transportation. It used to be a shamefull thing to be on "The Dole". LBJ said that should be ended. Now we have multiple generations of dependant people who'll vote Liberal to support thier dependancy.
 
Taking it a little too far aren't we George?
No one said ban cars. We said that car insurance doesn't require a government alternative becuase owning a car is a not a necessity, rather a luxury.
I'm not for gun bans at all.
And in case you weren't reading, the government health coverage would not mean that healthcare would be free. Also, things considered poor life choices (smoking, drugs, excessive drinking) and the consequences of their usage should not be covered.

I hate it when I'm headed off on the right direction, someone notices it and tries to derail my argument by leading it into an extreme.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Taking it a little too far aren't we George?
No one said ban cars. We said that car insurance doesn't require a government alternative becuase owning a car is a not a necessity, rather a luxury.
I'm not for gun bans at all.
And in case you weren't reading, the government health coverage would not mean that healthcare would be free. Also, things considered poor life choices (smoking, drugs, excessive drinking) and the consequences of their usage should not be covered.

I hate it when I'm headed off on the right direction, someone notices it and tries to derail my argument by leading it into an extreme.
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You haven't met the majority of the Democratic Party have you.... Eco-Terrorist, Commie-Marxist, Control Freaks.....

The idea of someone not under government control scares them.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Taking it a little too far aren't we George?
No one said ban cars. We said that car insurance doesn't require a government alternative becuase owning a car is a not a necessity, rather a luxury.
I'm not for gun bans at all.
And in case you weren't reading, the government health coverage would not mean that healthcare would be free. Also, things considered poor life choices (smoking, drugs, excessive drinking) and the consequences of their usage should not be covered.

I hate it when I'm headed off on the right direction, someone notices it and tries to derail my argument by leading it into an extreme.
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Perhaps, but free health care is implied. "Change you can believe in" is a totally meaningless slogan, but people assumed that meant for the better, something not said only implied. "Reduce costs of health care" people assume eliminating various things are implied, from reducing fraud/waste, to various things, but Tom Dashiel, Obama top pick for Health & Human Services Secretary advocated in his book reducing cost by ending expensive treatment & medicine for the older people. There are cases of this in England. They probably do it here too, they know it can't be said in public. Saw a stat that 70% of the expense of caring for a Cancer patient is incurred the last 2-3 days of life. I feel confident they'll be deciding when you have 2-3 days left & pull the plug. There was a big article in Readers Digest a few years ago how Holland has gone from "Right to death" to a "Duty to die" mentality with Docs euthanizing patients to save money or open up a hospital bed.
 
5.56X45mm said:
You haven't met the majority of the Democratic Party have you.... Eco-Terrorist, Commie-Marxist, Control Freaks.....

The idea of someone not under government control scares them.
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You forgot... no, never mind, I think you pretty much covered it as far as worthless stereotypes go.
 
5.56X45mm said:
You haven't met the majority of the Democratic Party have you.... Eco-Terrorist, Commie-Marxist, Control Freaks.....

The idea of someone not under government control scares them.
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Actually I suspect TOG knows much more about Democrats than you do about Republicans. You know the majority GOP consisting of Fascists, Racists, Religious Zealots, Chickenhawks, and Parasites. Stereotypes go both ways. As for being afraid of people not under government control, its strange but I remember a certain Administration who blatantly ignored the Constitution whenever they saw fit. And yet you never once objected.
 
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mmarsh said:
Actually I suspect TOG knows much more about Democrats than you do about Republicans. You know the majority GOP consisting of Fascists, Racists, Religious Zealots, Chickenhawks, and Parasites. Stereotypes go both ways. As for being afraid of people not under government control, its strange but I remember a certain Administration who blatantly ignored the Constitution whenever they saw fit. And yet you never once objected.
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Rob't "KKK" Byrd is a Republican? & when did welfare parasites start voting Rep? Current S.C. Dem. Senator Fritz Hollings raised the CS flag above the S.C. Capitol when he was Gov back then.
 
George said:
Rob't "KKK" Byrd is a Republican? & when did welfare parasites start voting Rep? Current S.C. Dem. Senator Fritz Hollings raised the CS flag above the S.C. Capitol when he was Gov back then.
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At least He quit and changed his colors. Unlike people like Lott, Helms, Thurman, George Allen, who never did. When did welfare parasites start voting republican? A very long time ago, but if you want recent proof take a look at the CEOs who got most of the bailout money, the government contracts in Iraq, etc. Worst parasites I have ever seen...
 
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I have great idea! Please be sure that I recieve the benefit of the laws that secure my right to buy and have a house without having to reside with anyone else except my offspring descendants. Such as:
N.C.G.S. §52-1, §52-4, §52-11 Property owned by a woman before marriage or inherited by her during marriage is hers alone. A married woman may give or receive gifts of real or personal property to or from her husband or anyone else.
N.C.G.S. 1-52 (4) (2001) for taking, detaining, converting or injuring goods
N.C.G.S. 75B-2 Discrimination in business Prohibited
 
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mmarsh said:
At least He quit and changed his colors. Unlike people like Lott, Helms, Thurman, George Allen, who never did. When did welfare parasites start voting republican? A very long time ago, but if you want recent proof take a look at the CEOs who got most of the bailout money, the government contracts in Iraq, etc. Worst parasites I have ever seen...
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Those guy were Kleagles in the Klan? Bill Clintons "Mentor ranks right up there with Helms. Clinton-The vote on the Voting Rights Act made me become a Democrat! Actually the only reason it passed was the higher % of yes votes by Republicans. Corp Welfare, @ least there's a chance of getting some work out of them..
 
Let me put it this way. If we're unhappy about the government, we can vote new people into office, people who will have to listen to our demands or face the end of the road in terms of their political career.
The private sector has no such accountability.
Although I do believe private businesses are very important, I do believe that we benefit a lot from a government alternative as well.
The problem I have with this discussion is that all I'm getting from people not in favor with what I'm saying is just rhetoric and slogans.
George, you're right in that these government institutions lose money but that's sort of their role in economics. They consume. They too buy things from the private sector, or they give contracts to the private sector in terms of outsourcing. This in turn gives the private sector a huge consumer and this consumer finds ways to keep the populace happy by means of providing services and also maintain its survival and institutions (military and law). You could accuse the military of losing money while PMCs make money. So what's the plan? Scrap the military and turn to PMCs for national defense?
The government doesn't need to pay for your healthcare to dictate how it'll work and from my experience, private companies are FAR more dictatorial when it comes to policies. The insurance companies seem to do a pretty fine job of micromanaging your doctor. There are those in government who want to do something about the medical system and there are those in government who are so full of insurance company money that they will do what they can to make sure an improvement does not happen.

And please, save the rhetoric.
 
George said:
Rob't "KKK" Byrd is a Republican? & when did welfare parasites start voting Rep? Current S.C. Dem. Senator Fritz Hollings raised the CS flag above the S.C. Capitol when he was Gov back then.
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Robert Byrd has done more for the state of West Virginia than anyone in the state's 146 year history.

And secondly, look at how the south shifted when LBJ pushed Civil Rights. Wallace cost Humphrey the election in '68 because the old guard insisted on voting Democrat because the Republicans were Lincoln's party. But look at the last election: my Grandfather was raised in West Virginia and was clearly raised in a racist society; you'd see that after talking with him for a half an hour. He says himself that Obama's skin color is the reason that he did poorly in West Virginia and in the rest of the south.

As for your so-called "welfare parasites," do you expect them to be stupid enough to vote for the party that wants them living under a Bridge spanning the Ohio River?
 
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