Obama's Church? - Page 2




 
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Obama's Church?
 
February 29th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
Obama's Church?
The question is this: Does America come first or does Africa? I don't see anything regarding allegiance to America. If it were absent, I'd prefer that it don't have a reference to allegiance to a foreign patch of turf.
In Sweden there either is or was a law that required that if you had a flag of a foreign country in your lawn, a Swedish flag of a larger size was required to be next to it. I heard this from a Swedish friend who's close to their diplomatic service so I think it's true.
February 29th, 2008  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
The question is this: Does America come first or does Africa? I don't see anything regarding allegiance to America. If it were absent, I'd prefer that it don't have a reference to allegiance to a foreign patch of turf.
In Sweden there either is or was a law that required that if you had a flag of a foreign country in your lawn, a Swedish flag of a larger size was required to be next to it. I heard this from a Swedish friend who's close to their diplomatic service so I think it's true.
Its no different that asking Rudy Guiliani as a Catholic Italian-American what comes first Italy or America, or Mitt Romney if he prefers Ireland or America.

The question is if Trinity United Church of Christ pledges closeness to Ireland instead Africa would anybody care? My feeling is: no.
February 29th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
I would.
And I think people should.
It's like sometimes I met some Asian-American dudes (they're easier to talk to about these things because I'm from "Asia") who barely speak the language of their parents' home country and yet hold an American passport and claim allegiance to that other country.
Now you get an organization that does that... it's no good. And it's certainly unacceptable when a key member of such an organization is running for President. What I don't know is how seriously Obama actually takes that Church's message.
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Obama's Church?
February 29th, 2008  
DTop
 
 
mmarsh, it is very different. Catholics don't vow any allegiance to Italy whatsoever. I think you may have been thinking of the Vatican but even still, the Vatican is only the seat of the Church and in no way does it compare to Africa nor do Catholics "remain true to our native land" when referring to the Vatican. It is a religious seat not a source of national roots.
Romney is of Irish descent but does not claim it as his "native land". I don't think the LDS church would have any allegiance to Ireland either. Those comparisons are not realistic.
I agree with 13th and think the question really is, how much does Obama buy into these church statements. Considering that he won't even wear an American flag pin on his lapel, I wonder.
February 29th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
And remember he did not salute the flag either.
I think we're seeing a pattern.
February 29th, 2008  
Missileer
 
 
"A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA"

"A congregation committed to RESTORATION."

"A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

I have a wee bit of trepidation here. Sounds like a mixture of NAZI and communist dogma. I wonder if this movement has come to the attention of the FBI?
February 29th, 2008  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
And remember he did not salute the flag either.
I think we're seeing a pattern.
No I think you are creating a pattern, I can understand you don't like the guy because he is a Democrat and you support the Republicans but do you really think that seeing wrong in everything sells your cause at all?

-"A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY." - Wow economic equality thats just plain evil seriously where in the bible does it state that you help the less fortunate out?

- "A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA" - How ludicrous a congregation that is predominantly of African decent has a commitment to Africa lets face it they should be more like the American Irish, Jewish, Italian communities and completely cut their ties.. Oh wait never mind.

Personally I am not sure what to make of him, to listen to him he has a certain amount of charisma and seems like decent enough guy but politically I can't recall him saying anything which leads me to believe that he is a good politician in which case I am not fond of him either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTop
mmarsh, it is very different. Catholics don't vow any allegiance to Italy whatsoever. I think you may have been thinking of the Vatican but even still, the Vatican is only the seat of the Church and in no way does it compare to Africa nor do Catholics "remain true to our native land" when referring to the Vatican. It is a religious seat not a source of national roots.
Where does he claim an "allegiance" to his native land, isn't he Kenyan or something?
What I see is a "commitment" to Africa which is vastly different to pledging "allegiance" to Africa and as far as Catholics vowing allegiance to Italy you may well be right however I would be interested to see how many US Catholic's would support an attack on the Vatican.
February 29th, 2008  
The Other Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedustboo
Total B.S. I certainly don't want anyone running anything if they are a member of a church like this. Very cult-like and racist in my opinion.

This is racism. I wonder how it would be taken if we (white folks) supported a white group like this...oh wait, we do have that, it's called the KKK. Same mentality, just a different skin pigment.
The difference is that these guys don't lynch people.
February 29th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
MontyB, I support no particular political party. Read my previous posts. I've kept a pretty open mind about this guy. He promises change, fine, but he's never really said what they were.
He didn't salute the flag... I thought it was a mistake. Not a very good one if you're running for president but still I gave the guy the possible benefit of the doubt.
When this thread about him being a member of this Church came up, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he may have just been a member for networking purposes... perhaps he doesn't take the Church's official message seriously.
Again like I said. I do not look kindly on any organization inside the United States with members who are United States citizens who have their main allegiance overseas. If you're going to be Irish, Spanish, Italian, Korean, Chinese, whatever that's fine, but America better come first. Read my posts.
Now if you belong to this sort of organization, then at least wear a damn American flag to show that you give a damn about the country you're supposed to run. It's symbolic, yes, but so is the middle finger. Why do we feel offended or pissed off when someone flicks us off? Well, if a guy running for President don't wear one and is a member of an organization with its primary allegiance outside of America then I think we may have a problem.
There's plenty of conservative types I'd plant my boot into before I even notice the hippies.
But voting a guy with a Che Guevara flag/poster in his campaign headquarters, is a member of an organization that has its first allegiance overseas, does not salute the anthem or flag and has a wife screaming that she disliked America until Obama became a realistic presidential candidate gives me some bad vibes.
I hate to put two and two together to make five but you come to a point where basically it's staring you in the face.
Now if I find any information that DISPROVES what I'm thinking here, then my stance could change. You've been here for a while. You know that being hard headed isn't one of my traits.

TOG:
you're right, I wouldn't exactly put these guys up with KKK. We've had some successful politicians in the past that were KKK. That s*** has got to stop.

And there ain't no such thing as economic parity. You get what you deserve.
February 29th, 2008  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
MontyB, I support no particular political party. Read my previous posts. I've kept a pretty open mind about this guy. He promises change, fine, but he's never really said what they were.
He didn't salute the flag... I thought it was a mistake. Not a very good one if you're running for president but still I gave the guy the possible benefit of the doubt.
When this thread about him being a member of this Church came up, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he may have just been a member for networking purposes... perhaps he doesn't take the Church's official message seriously.
Yeah yeah and we all read playboy for the articles.


Quote:
But voting a guy with a Che Guevara flag/poster in his campaign headquarters, is a member of an organization that has its first allegiance overseas, does not salute the anthem or flag and has a wife screaming that she disliked America until Obama became a realistic presidential candidate gives me some bad vibes.
I hate to put two and two together to make five but you come to a point where basically it's staring you in the face.
Now if I find any information that DISPROVES what I'm thinking here, then my stance could change. You've been here for a while. You know that being hard headed isn't one of my traits.
But see this is where your argument has huge holes, you ignore the facts and instead prefer to read between the lines and accept others inaccurate/biased assumptions while overlooking the realities.
I am assuming this is the "Che flag/poster" poster you are basing your argument on...
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pa...Y&pageId=1.1.1

and yet at the very bottom of the screen it clearly says...

The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign.

Essentially you are saying that if I was to open a George Bush supporters office and stick a poster of Pol Pot in it GWB would be a psychotic mass murderer or at least a supporter of one.

I don't care what side people support on issues I just wish people would look at things for what they actually are rather than continually extrapolating things into what they want them to be.
 


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