Obama Worries Liberals

Or making the average citizen their whipping boy when things go wrong.

We cannot let these companies fail. If we dont' bail them out, their rich CEOs wont' pour their own money into it. They'll let it go bust and cash in with the millions they still have left while everyone else loses all income. The only truly fair thing to do would be to strip the CEOs of all their money and pour it into company fund.

That is the heart of the problem. The Boards of Directors are allowing these obscene salaries, and the "golden parachutes". I don;t think that the government should regulate it either. I do think that CEO's need to be more accountable to the shareholders. Maybe a couple class action lawsuits against the boards and CEO's would bring them back to reality.
IMHO I think that if the government need to step in to bail the company out, they need to audit the company. If the company officers (CEO and Board) made no reasonable efforts to get the company out of debt, mis reported earnings or anything that did NOT improve the profitability of the company. Send them to jail. Ultimately I think that if companies are not building products that people want, maybe they should fail. I understand the ripple effect that losing one of the big 3 will have, but maybe it's time we reduce the number to 2.
 
That is the heart of the problem. The Boards of Directors are allowing these obscene salaries, and the "golden parachutes". I don;t think that the government should regulate it either. I do think that CEO's need to be more accountable to the shareholders. Maybe a couple class action lawsuits against the boards and CEO's would bring them back to reality.
IMHO I think that if the government need to step in to bail the company out, they need to audit the company. If the company officers (CEO and Board) made no reasonable efforts to get the company out of debt, mis reported earnings or anything that did NOT improve the profitability of the company. Send them to jail. Ultimately I think that if companies are not building products that people want, maybe they should fail. I understand the ripple effect that losing one of the big 3 will have, but maybe it's time we reduce the number to 2.
The only way I could see 3 become two without the ensuing collapse of the remaining companies would be a merger.
 
Completely agree with you about merging. No other way to avoid serious ripples throughout the economy. The automakers should view this as a wake up call. They need to look really hard at their business model and determine what they can sell and how they can return to profitability. That is why Chapter 11 would be the best way to approach it. Otherwise we are throwing good money after bad.
 
For the most part, anything Obama does won't actually show for quite a while. I think I heard somewhere that the first two years of a new president's term are the result of the last president's term...
 
HokieMSG

What you are proposing is nice in theory, but is frankly unworkable. The board of directors allow for these "Golden Parachautes" and insane bonuses for the CEOs because they get them too. They aren't going to kill the golden goose. Shareholders have absolutely no say in the contract negotiations, they might piss and moan but they have no power to do anything about it.
 
HokieMSG

What you are proposing is nice in theory, but is frankly unworkable. The board of directors allow for these "Golden Parachautes" and insane bonuses for the CEOs because they get them too. They aren't going to kill the golden goose. Shareholders have absolutely no say in the contract negotiations, they might piss and moan but they have no power to do anything about it.

mmarsh. I will disagree with you on the fact that shareholders have no say. They do. They don;t have to invest in these companies. But they do because most companies are actually showing a profit and paying dividends.
Shareholders can also pay attention to their proxy statements and not elect the same people to the board that have always been there. I bet most shareholdes don't even vote.
I admit my own hypocracy. I ***** and complain about this stuff, but I am still invested in these same companies.

I would also go even farther about the boards and ceo's. In many cases the ceo's are on the boards of other companies who's ceo's happen to be on their board. So they have an incentive to take care of their cronies.
 
Of course share holders have a say. The thing is, they only have as much input as stock they own. The small investor on his own has an insignificant impact on anything the company does. The huge investors are often courted by those same CEOs that are acting on their own self motivated behalves and not necessarily on behalf of the company.
That being said, if a shareholder is upset about CEO pay or any other management issue, they have three legitimate free-market options as I see it.
1. They can vote with their dollars by selling their shares.
2. Accumulate a controlling interest in the company (typically 51%) and impose a new board. (good luck with that)
3. Persuade a majority of shareholders to replace the board with people sympathetic to their concerns.

If enough shareholders really wanted a vote on CEO pay or other company policy issue, they could demand a change to the company’s bylaws. The truth is that very few companies have adopted such changes. Which suggests that most shareholders aren’t actually interested in gaining such control.
 
DTOP + HokieMSG

In theory shareholder have some say, but in practice they don't. Only those with massive stakes such as Warren Buffet or Bill Gates can as individuals can make changes on the board (as Buffet is trying to do with YAHOO!). But people with this amount of power are very, very, few...

DTOP mentioned forcing an action via a shareholders meeting. This too is a very difficult step, as each individual shareholder is basically seeking to protect him/her own interest. Its easier to herd cats than to find unity amongst thousands of people all looking out for themselves and all of which have their own opinion of what to do. A angry, united shareholder is a boards worst nightmare but it is very hard to do, and boards have measures to insure that this doesnt happen, like cutting individual deals with the largest shareholders to block/allow a vote.

Finally you both mentioned selling stock. Lets be honest, most shareholders dont care about CEO packages as long as the stock price remains high. If shareholders are making money, they are not going to rock the boat in any way. Thats the reality. Its when things start to go badly is when they start to complain. But nobody is going to want to sell their shares at a loss. And it has no real effect other than possibly lower the price of the stock even further.

And even if they were to get the company bylaws changed, I would imagine it would be impossible inact until the next CEO was hired. I dont think they can make enforce a change like that retractively. People with "Golden Parachaute" clauses in their contract would probably still get them. You cannot modify a labor contract after its been signed without agreement from the CEO.
 
mmarsh,
People invest in the stockmarket because it has traditionally done better than keeping your money in a bank. Yes there is risk, but the rewards are potentially much higher. I resent the government getting involved in something that it has no buisiness interfering in. The problem is the US govt wants to "loan" this money to the banks and the automakers, then they want to attach provisions limiting CEO salaries, benefit packages, etc. The "Car Czar" is a govt employee who likely will have no business background and will have no idea what he/she is doing. Government has NEVER been efficient and efficiency is exactly what these companies need right now. This is stuff that NO bank would ever consider doing. That is why I have been pushing Chapter 11 (reorganization) since the beginning. Let the courts (with no vested interest) oversee the reorganization. It will take time but IMHO it is the better choice.
 
You guys actually have money to invest in the stock market? Dam must be nice, but instead of money I have a wife and kids.
 
You guys actually have money to invest in the stock market? Dam must be nice, but instead of money I have a wife and kids.
Just some leftover life insurance after an elderly relative snuffed it... and that's only in there because one of my dad's friends tried the same thing, let the broker do whatever he wanted with it, and currently lives in a nice house in a well to do community.
 
Is it me or is this new Presidency been nothing but a celeberity thing..change yeah I know where to start...here is to the New American Hollywood, what a great vision of America a bunch of BS supported by hardworking Men and Women that make it all happen behind the scenes...

But please Miss Crow and Mister Wyclef don't let Denzel really tell us how it all should be....I'm sure you really know how your limo driver, sound stage director, and key grip really feel....fight on its all just like a movie, but hey it is your movie :p

I really love how peoples' houses are getting foreclosed; the economy is in the tank and yet we can still afford to have a HBO special concert for the upcoming inauguration...only to be followed by ball goers saying hey its a tough economy beer costs 6 bucks, drinks 9, champagne 12, and crap its served in plastic cups...

Way to start it off right ;)

Lets see if all this talk of great things will come to something other than more then just Huey Long style preaching....
 
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He seems to want to "recreate" many of the former presidential ideas including the whole "whistle-stop train" idea. Perhaps he wants to party like JFK?
 
He seems to want to "recreate" many of the former presidential ideas including the whole "whistle-stop train" idea. Perhaps he wants to party like JFK?

He seems to have ripped off everyone in his speaches from The good Doctor Mister King Jr. to JFK and all those before and after, now can he walk the talk...

Look how much money has been spent on all of this, from the past elections (including this one) to the parties, yet are economy is in the dumps and we are in endless wars...but hey party on...

Just put it on my tab.....
 
:drunkb:Thanks! If it's on your tab, (and in here I can't get fat from drinking...), I'll have a margarita-top shelf, please, with a Patron chaser.:drink:


Oh, and One Burbon, One Scotch, and One Beer! :cheers:
 
I'm still waiting to watch teh evening news so I can find out how many times he wiped his butt today.
I mean come on get teh dam cameras off of him and let him do his dam job, he can't work with the news media all over him 24-7
 
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