Norwegian and Finnish Rank system (split)

Redleg

Redleg

The fire is everything
Staff member
Edit: Split these off-topic posts from the Rank insignia thread here:
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8915


EuroSpike said:
Isn't sersjant an NCO? Korporal is maybe similar to our korpraali LCpl, wich is not NCO. Not sure but all norwegian squads i have seen seemed to have sergeant (three stripes) in charge. Is sersjant the lowest NCO rank in Norway?
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Nope, Norway doesn't have NCOs.. :)
A sergeant is still considered to be under education.

The sergeant school (officer candidate school) is in reallity two years long.
One year at the school, and one year as a sergeant in a unit.
After one year as a sarge you automatically get promoted to second Lieutenant.

The are a few exceptions to this, but we don't consider sergeants to be NCOs.

A sergeant is a squad leader most of the time, but 2.LTs can also be that (and even 1.LTs, in special squads)

Privates can be promoted to Corporals after 5-6 months of service, depending on how they performe and what job they have.
Some Corporals can also work as squad leaders the last 5-6 months of their military service..
But they are not NCOs either.
 
"The sergeant school (officer candidate school) is in reallity two years long.
One year at the school, and one year as a sergeant in a unit.
After one year as a sarge you automatically get promoted to second Lieutenant.

The are a few exceptions to this, but we don't consider sergeants to be NCOs."

Ok, but who acts in squad leader and other NCO tasks during wartime and in troops called up from reserve? You mean 2nd lieutenants are trained to act both as squad and platoon leader?

Sounds very different system than our's, like different rank systems and ranks themselves usually. In our system we have NCO school, reserve officer school and military academy, is kept quite simple. ;)
 
EuroSpike said:
Ok, but who acts in squad leader and other NCO tasks during wartime and in troops called up from reserve? You mean 2nd lieutenants are trained to act both as squad and platoon leader?
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2.Lt can act as both squad and platoon leaders depending on their experience.
A "young" 2Lt normally acts as a 2. in command for a platoon or as a squad leader, but a 2Lt with 3-4 years of experience (as a 2Lt) can act as a platoon commander. (5 years as a 2.Lt makes you a 1.Lt.)

Sounds very different system than our's, like different rank systems and ranks themselves usually. In our system we have NCO school, reserve officer school and military academy, is kept quite simple. ;)
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It's a bit different than your system, and it will get more complicated the next few years as well.. :)
It looks like we're moving more and more towards professional soldiers now, and maybe towards NCOs as well.
 
"2.Lt can act as both squad and platoon leaders depending on their experience.
A "young" 2Lt normally acts as a 2. in command for a platoon or as a squad leader, but a 2Lt with 3-4 years of experience (as a 2Lt) can act as a platoon commander. (5 years as a 2.Lt makes you a 1.Lt.)"

Do they get both squad and platoon leader training in sergeant school?

In our system after basic training about 25%-30% of company (suitable and volunteer) are sent to NCO course wich is divided in two periods NCO 1 and 2. Everyone does the period 1 (basic squad leader skills) and after that the best 10% are sent to reserve officer course and rests proceed on NCO 2 in their specializing training wich is here usually called "MOS". After NCO course (after 6 months training) all passed are promoted as undersergeants (corporal) and they start to train and practise primarily squad leader's tasks and leadership in their MOS on leadership period 6 months. Training on leadership period is fully controlled and a lot of bad immediate response is given by training officers.

After 12 months of training, package is copleted and they are booted out to reserve where military related possiblities are rejoining to military academy, SOF, frontier guard, assisting training officer (SSgt), MP, or service abroad.

"It looks like we're moving more and more towards professional soldiers now, and maybe towards NCOs as well."

Then one of the biggest problems: From where to get enough people to be trained professional NCOs and officers to fill wartime troops and replace casualties in major war? I don't know Norway's wartime strenght but i guess it is not far away from about 200-400 thousand troops. Quickly counted those troops would need about 100000 NCOs and officers to run the system and replace casualties (you know casualty ratio is higher among NCO/officers than basic enlistee). 100000 NCO/officers would at least immediately solve the problem of all unemployed people but who is going to pay the bill? Just half seriously kidding ;)
 
EuroSpike said:
Do they get both squad and platoon leader training in sergeant school?
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Yes and no.. :)

The sergeant school (also called "officers candidate school") is really two years long, one year at the school, and one year with a unit where you serve as a sergeant.

As a sergeant you normally serve as a squad leader, and in some cases even as a 2IC.
After one year as a sergeant you automatically become a 2Lt, and then you can work as a platoon 2IC (second in command)

you'll get your platoon commander training during your time as a 2IC.

But you can also apply directly to the Officers school right after your one year as a sergeant.
You go two years at the academy and you still graduate as a 2Lt. (you'll need 5 years to reach 1.Lt) but with a bit more platoon commander related education/training, so then you'll normally go directly into a platoon commander job.

Understand?? :D

Then one of the biggest problems: From where to get enough people to be trained professional NCOs and officers to fill wartime troops and replace casualties in major war?
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The Norwegian Army is getting smaller and smaller every day, so it doesn't seem like that's the biggest problem now.. :lol:

More and more of our forces are focused towards helping allies out with missions abroad, and in that way we "hope" to get their help as well if we should ever need some large forces here in our "back yard" :)
 
Actually this system could just get rid of the problem of having experienced, capable men who are unfortunately not officers so don't quite get their way.
 
"Understand?? :D"

Yes i understand. Can be good system to get platoon leaders easier straight replaceable.

How much is norwegian wartime strenght today? That strenght wich is to defend norwegian soil itself?

"The Norwegian Army is getting smaller and smaller every day, so it doesn't seem like that's the biggest problem now..

More and more of our forces are focused towards helping allies out with missions abroad, and in that way we "hope" to get their help as well if we should ever need some large forces here in our "back yard""

Swedish way of handling military, shut down the defence and concentrate on world saving? All countries decreasing their military power leads only to situation where everyone asks help but no-one is able to give it. Who is going to help if no-one has troops for it? Even US can't help all countries and some will be let on their owns and the only hope is to speed train people, if time enough for that.
 
Charge_7 said:
What makes you think officers always get their way?
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Not all, but it does happen.
2. Lt's got something to prove. Sarge is giving him advice that he doesn't like....
It depends on the officer.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Charge_7 said:
What makes you think officers always get their way?
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Not all, but it does happen.
2. Lt's got something to prove. Sarge is giving him advice that he doesn't like....
It depends on the officer.
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In the Canadian forces, it's usually "strongly suggested" that young 2 Lt and Lts pay very close attention to the platoon warrents. Besides, officers just hand out hte assignments, how they get done is still up to the Sgt and MCpls.
 
Redleg said:
EuroSpike said:
How much is norwegian wartime strenght today? That strenght wich is to defend norwegian soil itself?
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Not that much.. :)

Aprox numbers:
Army: 89,000
Home Guard: 83,000
Navy: 22,000
Air Force: 20,000

Here's some official facts and figures:
http://www.mil.no/languages/english/start/facts/
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Army units are mobile operative troops, right?

And Home guard is somekind locally acting areal troops? I guess they protect targets and are responsible to locally defend their area? They may be similar to our infantry brigades, independent infantry battalions wich are primarily for local defence missions.

" Its mission is mainly guard duty/securing key points such as mobilisation stores, power stations, telecoms installations etc. The Land Home Guard also has function in the area of surveillance/intelligence."

Sounds our's guard company but how about tasks and general tactics in combat?

What kind of equipments are issued to home guard soldiers and organizations? Do they have their military clothes at home? Do they have heavy equipments like field artillery, AA etc?
 
I heard the Swedes have 120 man companies that are mobilized in the event of war. From what my Swedish friend tells me, they're 120 drunk, angry guys with guns who have orders to conduct guerilla warfare.
 
This sounds like the IDF, with officers start out like eveyone else. That way young officers were already sargents...
 
the_13th_redneck said:
I heard the Swedes have 120 man companies that are mobilized in the event of war. From what my Swedish friend tells me, they're 120 drunk, angry guys with guns who have orders to conduct guerilla warfare.
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Yes Sweden have this kind of compani and its called "Hemvärn"
 
EuroSpike said:
Army units are mobile operative troops, right?
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Yes.


And Home guard is somekind locally acting areal troops? I guess they protect targets and are responsible to locally defend their area? They may be similar to our infantry brigades, independent infantry battalions wich are primarily for local defence missions.

Sounds our's guard company but how about tasks and general tactics in combat?

What kind of equipments are issued to home guard soldiers and organizations? Do they have their military clothes at home? Do they have heavy equipments like field artillery, AA etc?
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Home Guard (Heimevernet) are light Infantry troops (AG3, 84mm AT, 50. HMG etc..), with the responsibility to defend their local area.
No heavy weapons/vehicles.

Some more info about them here:
http://www.mil.no/languages/english/start/facts/homeguard/
 
EuroSpike said:
Swedish way of handling military, shut down the defence and concentrate on world saving? All countries decreasing their military power leads only to situation where everyone asks help but no-one is able to give it. Who is going to help if no-one has troops for it? Even US can't help all countries and some will be let on their owns and the only hope is to speed train people, if time enough for that.
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Hehe so true, its not good to have basicly more planes then pilots :lol:

And I hope they're stay off the alcohol that day when its time to get in :shock:
 
Redleg: Seems to be quite similar system to our system with operative and local areal troops.

"Hehe so true, its not good to have basicly more planes then pilots"

Now a bit offtopic but i have a good solution for that. Let's sell Ahvenanmaa (Åland) to ruskies and let them build a huge strategical naval base there. Then gain them a path throught Lappland, straight highway Petrozavodsk-Haparanda, then lets see what swedish goverment is going to do... I guess process of decreasing military would turn around. :D

"Yes Sweden have this kind of compani and its called "Hemvärn""

Or Hemvärnet? Untill 2008 some units of our local troops are reformed and filled by volunteer reservists, similar to swedish hemvärnet wich is originally copy of old finnish home guard.
 
EuroSpike said:
Redleg: Seems to be quite similar system to our system with operative and local areal troops.

"Hehe so true, its not good to have basicly more planes then pilots"

Now a bit offtopic but i have a good solution for that. Let's sell Ahvenanmaa (Åland) to ruskies and let them build a huge strategical naval base there. Then gain them a path throught Lappland, straight highway Petrozavodsk-Haparanda, then lets see what swedish goverment is going to do... I guess process of decreasing military would turn around. :D
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Well if i know göran right, hes porpbebly only going to have a big party for them ;)
 
"Well if i know göran right, hes porpbebly only going to have a big party for them"

What? You mean he would greet them welcome? Is this Göran somekind "comm... sorry, "usefull fool" in Sweden? Let me guess, he has propably KGB/Stasi/FSB backround or at least connections, huh?

I read somewhere that your left wing had forced their members to vote for military decreasing, if they wouldn't they would have been booted out from party. Is that true?

I have never understod any person who wants to fail his own country, his own people and himself.

Btw. How about swedish rank system? Do you really have no NCOs as someone has mentioned here somewhere? Isn't "Furir" NCO?
 
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