Norwegian and Finnish Rank system (split)




 
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February 4th, 2005  
Redleg
 
 

Topic: Norwegian and Finnish Rank system (split)


Edit: Split these off-topic posts from the Rank insignia thread here:
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum...pic.php?t=8915


Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroSpike
Isn't sersjant an NCO? Korporal is maybe similar to our korpraali LCpl, wich is not NCO. Not sure but all norwegian squads i have seen seemed to have sergeant (three stripes) in charge. Is sersjant the lowest NCO rank in Norway?
Nope, Norway doesn't have NCOs..
A sergeant is still considered to be under education.

The sergeant school (officer candidate school) is in reallity two years long.
One year at the school, and one year as a sergeant in a unit.
After one year as a sarge you automatically get promoted to second Lieutenant.

The are a few exceptions to this, but we don't consider sergeants to be NCOs.

A sergeant is a squad leader most of the time, but 2.LTs can also be that (and even 1.LTs, in special squads)

Privates can be promoted to Corporals after 5-6 months of service, depending on how they performe and what job they have.
Some Corporals can also work as squad leaders the last 5-6 months of their military service..
But they are not NCOs either.
February 6th, 2005  
EuroSpike
 
"The sergeant school (officer candidate school) is in reallity two years long.
One year at the school, and one year as a sergeant in a unit.
After one year as a sarge you automatically get promoted to second Lieutenant.

The are a few exceptions to this, but we don't consider sergeants to be NCOs."

Ok, but who acts in squad leader and other NCO tasks during wartime and in troops called up from reserve? You mean 2nd lieutenants are trained to act both as squad and platoon leader?

Sounds very different system than our's, like different rank systems and ranks themselves usually. In our system we have NCO school, reserve officer school and military academy, is kept quite simple.
February 6th, 2005  
Redleg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroSpike
Ok, but who acts in squad leader and other NCO tasks during wartime and in troops called up from reserve? You mean 2nd lieutenants are trained to act both as squad and platoon leader?
2.Lt can act as both squad and platoon leaders depending on their experience.
A "young" 2Lt normally acts as a 2. in command for a platoon or as a squad leader, but a 2Lt with 3-4 years of experience (as a 2Lt) can act as a platoon commander. (5 years as a 2.Lt makes you a 1.Lt.)

Quote:
Sounds very different system than our's, like different rank systems and ranks themselves usually. In our system we have NCO school, reserve officer school and military academy, is kept quite simple.
It's a bit different than your system, and it will get more complicated the next few years as well..
It looks like we're moving more and more towards professional soldiers now, and maybe towards NCOs as well.
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February 6th, 2005  
EuroSpike
 
"2.Lt can act as both squad and platoon leaders depending on their experience.
A "young" 2Lt normally acts as a 2. in command for a platoon or as a squad leader, but a 2Lt with 3-4 years of experience (as a 2Lt) can act as a platoon commander. (5 years as a 2.Lt makes you a 1.Lt.)"

Do they get both squad and platoon leader training in sergeant school?

In our system after basic training about 25%-30% of company (suitable and volunteer) are sent to NCO course wich is divided in two periods NCO 1 and 2. Everyone does the period 1 (basic squad leader skills) and after that the best 10% are sent to reserve officer course and rests proceed on NCO 2 in their specializing training wich is here usually called "MOS". After NCO course (after 6 months training) all passed are promoted as undersergeants (corporal) and they start to train and practise primarily squad leader's tasks and leadership in their MOS on leadership period 6 months. Training on leadership period is fully controlled and a lot of bad immediate response is given by training officers.

After 12 months of training, package is copleted and they are booted out to reserve where military related possiblities are rejoining to military academy, SOF, frontier guard, assisting training officer (SSgt), MP, or service abroad.

"It looks like we're moving more and more towards professional soldiers now, and maybe towards NCOs as well."

Then one of the biggest problems: From where to get enough people to be trained professional NCOs and officers to fill wartime troops and replace casualties in major war? I don't know Norway's wartime strenght but i guess it is not far away from about 200-400 thousand troops. Quickly counted those troops would need about 100000 NCOs and officers to run the system and replace casualties (you know casualty ratio is higher among NCO/officers than basic enlistee). 100000 NCO/officers would at least immediately solve the problem of all unemployed people but who is going to pay the bill? Just half seriously kidding
February 6th, 2005  
Redleg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroSpike
Do they get both squad and platoon leader training in sergeant school?
Yes and no..

The sergeant school (also called "officers candidate school") is really two years long, one year at the school, and one year with a unit where you serve as a sergeant.

As a sergeant you normally serve as a squad leader, and in some cases even as a 2IC.
After one year as a sergeant you automatically become a 2Lt, and then you can work as a platoon 2IC (second in command)

you'll get your platoon commander training during your time as a 2IC.

But you can also apply directly to the Officers school right after your one year as a sergeant.
You go two years at the academy and you still graduate as a 2Lt. (you'll need 5 years to reach 1.Lt) but with a bit more platoon commander related education/training, so then you'll normally go directly into a platoon commander job.

Understand??

Quote:
Then one of the biggest problems: From where to get enough people to be trained professional NCOs and officers to fill wartime troops and replace casualties in major war?
The Norwegian Army is getting smaller and smaller every day, so it doesn't seem like that's the biggest problem now..

More and more of our forces are focused towards helping allies out with missions abroad, and in that way we "hope" to get their help as well if we should ever need some large forces here in our "back yard"
February 6th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
Actually this system could just get rid of the problem of having experienced, capable men who are unfortunately not officers so don't quite get their way.
February 6th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
What makes you think officers always get their way?
February 6th, 2005  
EuroSpike
 
"Understand?? "

Yes i understand. Can be good system to get platoon leaders easier straight replaceable.

How much is norwegian wartime strenght today? That strenght wich is to defend norwegian soil itself?

"The Norwegian Army is getting smaller and smaller every day, so it doesn't seem like that's the biggest problem now..

More and more of our forces are focused towards helping allies out with missions abroad, and in that way we "hope" to get their help as well if we should ever need some large forces here in our "back yard""

Swedish way of handling military, shut down the defence and concentrate on world saving? All countries decreasing their military power leads only to situation where everyone asks help but no-one is able to give it. Who is going to help if no-one has troops for it? Even US can't help all countries and some will be let on their owns and the only hope is to speed train people, if time enough for that.
February 6th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
What makes you think officers always get their way?
Not all, but it does happen.
2. Lt's got something to prove. Sarge is giving him advice that he doesn't like....
It depends on the officer.
February 6th, 2005  
r031Button
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
What makes you think officers always get their way?
Not all, but it does happen.
2. Lt's got something to prove. Sarge is giving him advice that he doesn't like....
It depends on the officer.
In the Canadian forces, it's usually "strongly suggested" that young 2 Lt and Lts pay very close attention to the platoon warrents. Besides, officers just hand out hte assignments, how they get done is still up to the Sgt and MCpls.