No place for the SMG?

[EOD]

I think the US Military has basically gone ahead and moved away from the idea of an SMG and elected more for Assault Rifles, Machine Guns and other weapons. Pilots, however, such as Black Hawks and some other birds as well as SF teams use weapons like the MP5 for holdouts. Mike Durant of the SOAR used one in Mogadishu, Somalia, to defend himself after he and his UH-60 crashed. He used it till it jammed.

I'm not much into the US Army but as the Germans do now and some other countries (including trails in the US) they are planning on replacing standard service pistols and SMGs in 9x19 with the Heckler&Koch PDW MP-7 (German Army designation) in 4.6x30 which has a much higher performance then the 9x19 and gives a much larger fighting distance with a retractable stock and optional sights and beeing still rather small. The P 90 is a rival of the PDW but being older it did not manage to get the attention the PDW is getting.
Any opinions?

 

[bushpig1998]

The MP7 is great in design, but it lacks the knock down power of larger rounds. Where it does excel is in penetration. It is much smaller than the P90 and can be carried almost like a pitol in a specialized holster. I think it would be a GREAT backup weapon for DM's, tank and aircraft crews. Effective range should be a bit longer than the 9mm SMG's - say around 150 to 200 meters. I still think a standard PDW calibre should be adopted.

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

The M16 holds more rounds in each clip (not sure of the exact numbers), .

Not necessarily. M-16 usually have 30-round or 25-round clips, while an FN P90 has 50 rounds. MP-5s have 30 rounds.

The P 90 is a rival of the PDW but being older it did not manage to get the attention the PDW is getting.
Any opinions?

Yes: The P90 looks way cooler than the MP7. The coolest looking assault weapons are the FN F 2000 and the H&K XM-8. The Steyr ACR looks pretty neat too. :rambo: I know, I know it's not a beauty contest in real life. :lol:

 

[A Can of Man]

I've always liked the UMP

 

[Locke]

from what i have heard and seen, SMGs are a good close quarters PDW but if you are going to go to war and you need something with range and power, then there is little use for them.
you just have to look at them, which looks more fearsome, an M16A4 or a P90, sure the '90 looks futuristic and all, but it still looks small and a bit like i toy, if i was going to carry a weapon i would want one which looked the real deal

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

Check this out:

The Poly Arme Poly Projectile is the latest French assault weapon (similar to the F2000). It is the most futuristic fat grenade launcher/assault weapon I've seen so far.

 

[Armyjaeger]

Check this out:
The Poly Arme Poly Projectile is the latest French assault weapon (similar to the F2000). It is the most futuristic fat grenade launcher/assault weapon I've seen so far.

Is it just an optical illusion or is it really that huge :shock:

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

Is it just an optical illusion or is it really that huge :shock:

It is a fat mother****er alright :rambo: Reminds me of the BFG from Doom & Quake games.

 

[Corocotta]

What a hell is that? :shock: :?:

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

What a h**l is that? :shock: :?:

Part of the F.E.L.I.N system. France's answer to the American Land Warrior system. Look up PAPOP on google.

 

[Corocotta]

What a h**l is that? :shock: :?:

Part of the F.E.L.I.N system. France's answer to the American Land Warrior system. Look up PAPOP on google.

Thanks, nice toy!! :biggun:

 

[bushpig1998]

LOL!

Poor troops....carrying that sucker around on operations will be a nightmare!

Locke, I agree to a certain extent with what you said, but what of the great success of PPSH in 7.62x25 during WW2?
The russians used this little round to great effect! I still think it would be suitable as the ultimate PDW/SMG/Pistol round - with frangible bullets of course.

 

[MontyB]

Jeez add a tape deck and a CD player and it looks like something I got for xmas a few years back.

 

[FRO]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm
I don't see how the FN 2000 is an assault rifle.

Hey There

Sorry to drop in so late on this one, but it didn't look like anyone had answered this question.

The FN 2000 is an assault rifle because of the cartridge it uses (5.56x45 NATO). That's a rifle cartridge, but not as powerful as a battle rifle cartridge (like the 7.62x51 NATO). SMGs use pistol cartridges.

Hope that helps.

Take care all.

FRO

 

[A Can of Man]

It really doesnt look like something Id like to bring to combat.

 

[bushpig1998]

Dito

 

[mmarsh]

Do you think its fair to say the the newer bullpup assault rifes (Steyr Aug, SO80 Series, G36C, FAMAS, etc...) seem to have replaced the need for the SMG?

 

[Obvious]

For your information G36c is not a bullpup but a standard like an m16 of ak47. and No, Smgs still have a purpose. Like urban combat where the bullet hits the terrorist and doesn't penentrate through and hit someone else like a civilian.

 

[5.56X45mm]

FIREARMS are tools. You use different tools for different jobs. If you need to eneter a building and not kill those on the otherside of the wall. You use a SMG chambered in a caliber that doesn't have a lot of pentration. THe 9mm is good for that if you use a fragmention round. Also the .45ACP is in my opinion the best SMG cartridge. You can still hold a ton of that stuff. (It's a SMG magazine on a pistol, size isn't a problem.) The round is Sub-Sonic period. No need to get speical ammunition. You can use a standard surpressor. And there are many weapon systems chambered for it. The H&K UMP, Colt AR-15 SMG, Beretta CX4 Storm, M1 Thompson, M3 Grease Gun, and so on and so forth. If you need somehting with litlte reciol, good ammunition supply (magazine capacity), simple operations, light wieght, and good penetration. The M4 Carbine is perfect for the job.

 

[LeEnfield]

[img]http://i23.photobucket.com/alb...he weapons are using the same size ammunition