Night Drop- The American Airborne Invasion of Normandy

Young Winston

Young Winston

Banned
Just finished reading S.L.A.Marshall's book, Night Drop.

Has anyone else read it recently.

What an amazing book. Talk about Heroism and Sacrifice. I didn't realize so many of the 82nd and 101st Airborne guys were dropped all over the place behind Utah Beach, a long way from their designated dropzones.

How many of them formed up on D-Day to create effective fighting units against established German defences is truly mind blowing. My heart was in my mouth reading it.

What Harrison Summers did at the German barracks, Reuville Road will be talked about for generations. Does anyone know more about him?

How come what seem like ordinary guys can do such incredible things under such horrific and terrifying conditions?
 
Yes indeed. A clear illustration of America's "secret weapon" - our junior leaders. The majority of countries do not allow sergeants and lieutenants and captains to make the kinds of decisions our's can when the battle plan hits the trash heap. Junior leaders were decisive at Normandy.
 
actually germany had one of the youngest officers average in their army, whereas a young officer of the british army or the french army would be in control of platoons to companies while in the germany fast promotions allowed 35-40 years of age young people controlling entire regiments and even divisions.

true, young officers is the key to morale and they learn fast
 
My point was only partly to do with the youth and juniority of these leaders in terms of rank - it was even more to do with the fact that our military allows such leaders latitudes of control and direction that The Third Reich (and other countries still today) did not. Our captains could make decisions that no _colonel_ in the German Army could make.
 
Charge_7 said:
Yes indeed. A clear illustration of America's "secret weapon" - our junior leaders. The majority of countries do not allow sergeants and lieutenants and captains to make the kinds of decisions our's can when the battle plan hits the trash heap. Junior leaders were decisive at Normandy.
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agree 100%. that one of main rasons why the whole invasion did not fail. younger officers had control in the field, and were able to make right decisions in right moment. on the other hand, germans had good officers, but hitler did not believe even his generals. germans knew about night drops but they could not do anything without direct order from berlin. orders were recieved in the morning but then it was 2 late. americans were always practical. there is great book `Panzer comander` by Hans fon Luck, one of the best german officers.
 
a famous saying goes:

there are 2 kinds of commanders, a tactician and a strategist

a tactician is usually young, capable of orders on demand and fast reaction, most capable in field battles and front line service

a strategist is older, mor emature officer whos moves, timing and arrangmeents of armies decide the future of any battle. these are officers whos got the real power and are prone to mistakes

in history a tactician was better off in the germany army during world war II than a strategist, for hitler mostly blames his mistakes on his strategists
 
The sucess was made possible by hard charging NCO's and Officers who took a bad situation and adapted. The US practice of teaching Junior leaders to lead proved it's worth.
 
Charge_7 said:
My point was only partly to do with the youth and juniority of these leaders in terms of rank - it was even more to do with the fact that our military allows such leaders latitudes of control and direction that The Third Reich (and other countries still today) did not. Our captains could make decisions that no _colonel_ in the German Army could make.
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This isn't true at all. Don't confuse the political nature of the Third Reich with the way in which the German Army was run. After the Versailles Treaty had basically restricted the German Army to 100,000 strong, Germany had to maximise what resources they were allowed and think outside the box. This included introducing revolutionary new tactics for war and also by fostering empowerment and encouraging soldiers to 'step up' when required and think for themselves.

One of the reasons why the Wehrmacht was such a good army in WW2 was it's ability to adapt very quickly to changing tactical situations. Junior NCOs and Officers were very much encouraged to make decisions so long as they matched the operational/strategic plans for the units they were attached to. This became even more important after 1942 when Germany began to feel the strain of replacing their combat losses and also true in prolonged fighting where junior NCOs and Officers had to and indeed did 'step up' and take command.
 
aussiejohn said:
The quality of the German fighting forces in the area was mixed to say the least.
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If you're referring to the battle in question then yes it was. Even the elite Panzer and SS Panzer formations there were not of the quality normally expected of such units. These units had been sent to the West to be rebuilt, from scratch in some cases, and found themselves earmarked for Western operations, which had never been intended initially. Due to Germany's chronic manpower shortage their once highly trained manpower was supplemented by Luftwaffe personnel who no longer had planes to fly and with foreign and underage/overage recruits. The US, Canadian and British forces by contrast were consistently of high quality.
 
Doppleganger said:
aussiejohn said:
The quality of the German fighting forces in the area was mixed to say the least.
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If you're referring to the battle in question then yes it was. Even the elite Panzer and SS Panzer formations there were not of the quality normally expected of such units. These units had been sent to the West to be rebuilt, from scratch in some cases, and found themselves earmarked for Western operations, which had never been intended initially. Due to Germany's chronic manpower shortage their once highly trained manpower was supplemented by Luftwaffe personnel who no longer had planes to fly and with foreign and underage/overage recruits. The US, Canadian and British forces by contrast were consistently of high quality.
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Doppleganger, could you tell me what German units were defending Carentan?

In Marshall's book, Nightdrop, he gives a great account of the Carentan fight. It appears that what saved the day was US artillery. Otherwise the 101st guys were about to withdraw. They fought bravely but were getting a hammering on the causeway and the hedgrow country beyond Bridge No.4 on the Madeliene.

I can't remember much of this in Band of Brother episode on Carentan but I haven't seen it for about 3 years.
 
As also sent to you in a PM.

As far as I can make out it was it was 2nd Company, 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" and 6th Regiment Fallschirmjager "Green Devils". On the face of it sounds like very good German troops and the Fallschirmjager were, although they lacked heavy weaponry being essentially lightly armed infantry. The Officers and some of the NCOs of Das Reich were also very good but most of their men were ill-trained and green, as Das Reich had only recently been sent to Normandy for refit and repair after fierce fighting on the Eastern Front. By this time, many German combat replacements were receiving only 1 week's basic training before joining their units! This is not to belittle the efforts of the US 82nd and 101st who were very good units and performed very well in battle.

Cheers.
 
2nd SS Panzer Regiment.


http://www.dasreich.ca/fritz_anec2.html[url] I like reading the personal accounts.
 
I wonder what the outcome would be if the 82nd and an elite German infantry unit went face to face after both units were equally battle hardened. Man for man? The Germans would had obviously slaughtered us at the beginning of the war.
 
So Das Reich was the 2nd SS Panzer Division. They did some bad stuff in France. If they were at Carentan I can now understand why it was such a nasty fight.
 
definelty german ss units wouldve won

they had more experience, the stereotypical image that defines a german soldier as superior than others. plus, the germans were armed with very good arms, SG44s, mp40s and potatomashers

iuno about us paratrooper performance, anyone care to give me some detail on that?
 
AA said:
definelty german ss units wouldve won

they had more experience, the stereotypical image that defines a german soldier as superior than others. plus, the germans were armed with very good arms, SG44s, mp40s and potatomashers

iuno about us paratrooper performance, anyone care to give me some detail on that?
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Some historians think that one of the reason why German units continued to perform very well despite their level of quality and training gradually going down after 1942 was the MG-42 machine gun, one of the best weapons of WW2. Today the Bundeswehr uses the MG-3, which is almost identical.

Don't forget that not all SS units were elite. The units formed towards the end of the war were nothing like the same quality as the very best units such as Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, Totenkopf and Das Reich. Also, the best Army (Heer) units were just as good as the best SS divisions.
 
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