nice analysis on the middle east
That's why democracy is so important. Israelis have the power to choose a new leader, a government that will go the extra mile to enforce a peace agreement. Unfortunately this is not possible in Palestine (with a fanatic Hamas - much worse than Netanyahu) or Iran where people are allowed to choose between politicians approved by the mullahs, who cannot be chosen and stay in power.
Der Alte
Banned
The best hope for modernization, and ultimately liberalization, in the Arab and Muslim worlds today lies in incumbent regimes who recognize that, first of all, economic modernization is essential to their country's future.
Churchill urged the Free World to lead by principled example, not to impose such principles by force; adopting the latter course risks subverting these principles from within, and thus eroding the foundations of our own democracy as we propose to build new democratic foundations abroad. The reality is that the ingredients for successful democracy are found in domestic political kitchens. Democracy is a dish that the Middle East must prepare for themselves.
Churchill urged the Free World to lead by principled example, not to impose such principles by force; adopting the latter course risks subverting these principles from within, and thus eroding the foundations of our own democracy as we propose to build new democratic foundations abroad. The reality is that the ingredients for successful democracy are found in domestic political kitchens. Democracy is a dish that the Middle East must prepare for themselves.
Frankly, the ME is not yet ready for democracy. Religion is to heavely involved and the average resident not well enough educated (read easily manipulated) to make a choice.
The Arab spring was started by secular people and later hijacked by religious ones. The seculars were not able to stand up against the power of the mosques.
The constitution in a democracy must be very neutral and for all the people. If you throw in religion it is not for all the people anymore.
The Arab spring was started by secular people and later hijacked by religious ones. The seculars were not able to stand up against the power of the mosques.
The constitution in a democracy must be very neutral and for all the people. If you throw in religion it is not for all the people anymore.
Typical Western mindset.
What is democracy as seen from the Muslim world? In recent times a so-called postcolonial critique has developed to challenge the long-standing dominance of Western thought in knowledge about world politics. It is important to contest modernist assumptions that democracy can be understood in wholly secular terms. On the contrary, religion and culture more generally open up key insights for concepts and practices of democracy in global affairs.
Islam offers a possible alternative frame of reference that sees democracy from a different angle. It should be stressed that Islam and democracy are not in contradiction. On the contrary, Islam has a rich tradition of thinking about democracy, although it encompasses various schools of thought. Hence there is no more a single Islamic idea of democracy than there is a single Western approach. In addition, Islamic scholarship has long engaged with international dimensions and contexts of democracy. Thus the problem is not that Islam has no ideas to contribute to debates about democracy, but that these notions have so far not spread beyond the narrow confines of Islamic studies to wider social enquiry.
In sum, then, Islam can contribute to conceptions of democracy with its concentration on the human condition, its ideas of nonterritorial community, its strivings for intercultural harmony, its insistence on social justice, and its recognition of the need for struggle to achieve a just democracy. These ideas can offer wider and richer conceptions of democracy than those provided by western political thought alone.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Oddly enough I disagree, religion (any religion) and democracy are contradictions, democracy is at its base "Rule of the people" and I have yet to find any religion that holds national elections for its leaders.
Giving people a vote is not democracy if those that they elect are subservient to unelected leaders, in order to have genuine rule by the people all other power gathering organisations religion being one must be relegated to a lower position.
Giving people a vote is not democracy if those that they elect are subservient to unelected leaders, in order to have genuine rule by the people all other power gathering organisations religion being one must be relegated to a lower position.
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Some questions
1- What is the different between west politics before these events and after that? For example compare Obama speech in Cairo University about the Mobark regime and his speech after Egypt revolution.
2- Do the western countries and especially the US, who show themselves as the guiding of freedom and democracy in the world (!!!), have the same policies with the different dictatorships in the region after these events?
3- Which country will increase his influence and which one will lose it in the ME in future?
1- What is the different between west politics before these events and after that? For example compare Obama speech in Cairo University about the Mobark regime and his speech after Egypt revolution.
2- Do the western countries and especially the US, who show themselves as the guiding of freedom and democracy in the world (!!!), have the same policies with the different dictatorships in the region after these events?
3- Which country will increase his influence and which one will lose it in the ME in future?
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Politics is dirty business. It's about power. But also about defending interests which can be a disadvantage for other people/countries. Take oil for instance. The ME is full of it and many countries are dependent on it. If the oil producing countries of the ME decide to block all oil exports it's war. People all over the world will force their governments to take action.
But politics is also a balancing act. Again interests come into play. Everyone is watching the Arab spring and looking for ways to keep doing business but one good turn deserves another.
About which country will increase his influence and which one will lose it in the ME in future? It depends. Influece on people or government? Do not forget that new leaders will be informed by the secret services of that country and will hear a lot of new things that they didn't know about. China and Russia are for the moment not very well liked in the ME but once their financial support arrives that can quickly change.
Democracy in Islam is impossible. Islam in a democracy is possible. It's called cultural Islam. Rule of law is neutral, for all people. Holidays are islamic ones. Just as christianity in a democracy is called Cultural Christianity. Christian holidays. But when religious laws are put into the rule of law democracy is finished. Religion can be a splendid thing if it is used for personal benefits. Once you force it upon other people it's terror.
Yes the politics is a dirty business in west. All the things the west politicians say about freedom, human rights, women rights, homosexual rights, animal rights... are just propaganda to use them against the countries that don't follow west.
west double standard politics about ME events are good examples. They talk about the freedom in Libya but don't talk about freedom in Saudi Arabia, they talk about Syria but don't talk about Bahrain, they ... .
So when one of west politician talk about the human right in a country, we should know that they want to catch a benefit there and when they don't talk we should know they don't want to lose a benefit there. there are a lot of examples of this type. It is the worth you pride to it but in east it isn't.
I am not a religious person but no doubt the only winner will be Islamist.
The ME people don't want to have a copy of west democracy in their countries and in fact they don't need it. They want to have a government that be based on their culture. this is the minimum right of a society. with religion or without it, it depended on to that country 's people decision .
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We do talk about Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Speaking of Syria, your country supports Assad, the West supports the Syrian people.
Our politicians play it hard but they support freedom of speech, freedom of media, freedom of movement. They support a lot of poor countries. And they have to take our will into consideration or they lose power. Satellite broadcasts are not jammed. Twitter, facebook and youtube are freely accessible and the opposition politicians have no house arrest.
You will find a nice comparison about corruption here.
Talking about double standards, in the ME the articles written in Persian or Arabic do not always correspond with their English translation, especially in Palestine (thanks Google).
Islam wil go the same way as all other religions. Once their believers get more educated, the religion wil wane.
Religion is a pure thing politics is a dirty business these 2 just cant be mixed together or then the religion loses its purity that is what the Muslim brotherhood is doing.
To app up, if you look at Iran and at Egypt what an Iranian will do when he exits iran and what an Egyptian can do when he exits Egypt.
My uncle has dealt with a lot of Iranians and he tells me that the Iranians hate religion more than anything else because it was forced on them .
once Prophet Mohamed was asked if we had 2 to chose from to rule us
would we choose a strong leader who doesn't believe in god
, or a weak leader that believes in god.
he said a strong leader that doesn't believe in god because his religious views are for himself but his personality is what will rule .
there is nothing such as there is no democracy in Islam there is not democracy in extremist's view of Islam.
if you look at the views of the Azhar (the place where Muslims come to learn about Islam) is a great example of moderate Islam.
To app up, if you look at Iran and at Egypt what an Iranian will do when he exits iran and what an Egyptian can do when he exits Egypt.
My uncle has dealt with a lot of Iranians and he tells me that the Iranians hate religion more than anything else because it was forced on them .
once Prophet Mohamed was asked if we had 2 to chose from to rule us
would we choose a strong leader who doesn't believe in god
, or a weak leader that believes in god.
he said a strong leader that doesn't believe in god because his religious views are for himself but his personality is what will rule .
there is nothing such as there is no democracy in Islam there is not democracy in extremist's view of Islam.
if you look at the views of the Azhar (the place where Muslims come to learn about Islam) is a great example of moderate Islam.
LeEnfield
Active member
It took the west hundreds of years to get to its present position on democracy and countless civil wars. Now You just can't impose this on countries that have no real concept of this form of government. Democracy in most of these countries is stuff the ballot box and get power, then change the rules so that you can't lose any election. Whats the old saying Power corrupts and total power corrupts totally