The next Arab-Israeli war - Page 8




 
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June 23rd, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
No Ben we've been through all this before. It's a conflict between a greedy occupier backed by the most powerful country in the world and an tribal society who are only allied in their hatred of that occupier.

Why do the Zionists have a "right" to self determination. What comes next,... do the Methodists of the world have a right to self determination? Or the Pigeon Fanciers, or the Ford Car Club? No!

If you really want to hear someone compare the Israelis and their supporters to the Nazis, watch and learn from a man who knows.
Dr. Hajo Meyer Auschwitz Survivor
June 24th, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
the jewish people have every tight to self determination.

so do the palestinian people.

simply put, it's a conflict between right and right

therefore the land has to be divided between the two parties.

this is the international consensus.

it's pretty simple really.

by the way, the here is the European Union's definition of antisemitism:

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self*determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
I will agree with you and go one step further by saying all people should have the right of self determination however that does not mean all people have the right to their own country, self determination (in political terms) only gives people the right to choose their form of government or political status without outside influence it does not mean that every minority group gets their own country.

In the case of Israel/Palestine you are right the area will have to be shared but given that neither side is negotiating sincerely the only way an agreement will be reached is when neither side has the will to fight on and without a lot more death and destruction this will never happen, but something you should understand is that the Palestinians have no reason to make peace as they have nothing to lose.

As for who is and who isn't anti-semetic well given that the term itself has been hijacked to mean solely anti-Jewish even though Semetic people include most of the middle eastern people (including Arabs and Jews) I personally think that argument is without merit.
June 24th, 2011  
benaakatz
 
 
Joe, are you really prepared to label all of the 5 and a half million Israeli Jews as Nazis deserving death?

This seems to be your conclusion

It is a dangerous road to go down, claiming all of group x is evil. It does not apply to the Israeli-palestinian conflict
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June 24th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
Joe, are you really prepared to label all of the 5 and a half million Israeli Jews as Nazis deserving death?

This seems to be your conclusion
Where have I ever said that or anything even approaching it? You are using the usual ploy used by the pro Zionists (among others) of dramatically over stating the case. You attempt portray anyone who presents a logical case against you as being a rabid "hater" or more usually an anti semite, a name that has become largely irrelevant as a result of this behaviour.

Did you actually take the time to view the video clip I posted about Dr, Meyer, an Auschwitz survivor? Would you accuse him of advocating the death of half a million Israeli Jews?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
It is a dangerous road to go down, claiming all of group x is evil. It does not apply to the Israeli-palestinian conflict
Well, as I said I never said anything vaguely like that so, no, it's not dangerous for me, and secondly why does it not apply that one or more of the groups is evil? I would definitely call theft, beatings, social exclusion, disenfranchisement and murder of any group, evil.
June 24th, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
Joe, are you really prepared to label all of the 5 and a half million Israeli Jews as Nazis deserving death?

This seems to be your conclusion

It is a dangerous road to go down, claiming all of group x is evil. It does not apply to the Israeli-palestinian conflict
Maybe if Joe was the leader of a Islamic republic run by muslim clergy and void of any democratic ideas...but most people (including the majority of Joe's) would find that idea ridiculous.

In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict there's no good-side, or bad-side, though there's plenty of evil to be found on both sides.

The peacefull solution to that conflict died with Count Bernadotte on Hapalmah Street in 1948.
I guess someone didn't like the idea of a peacefull solution..
June 25th, 2011  
Korean Seaboy
 
 
Israel should have the right to be a nation (and a Jewish country if it chose so), but it has no right to occupy Gaza and the West Bank, not to mention Palestine. That's my position, the reasons are plentiful
June 28th, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korean Seaboy
Israel should have the right to be a nation (and a Jewish country if it chose so), but it has no right to occupy Gaza and the West Bank, not to mention Palestine. That's my position, the reasons are plentiful
Still there's the paradox of being a Theocracy and still claiming the status of a Democracy..
And the risk of turning into an Apartheid-state is imminent, unless they find a way to solve the problem of the occupied territories infested with non-jews.
June 28th, 2011  
AtticStatic
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHERMAN
1- when is this war going to happen?

2- which Arab countrys will participate?

3- how will it go?
1) Its not going to happen today. Certain pieces of land seem to have a history of ownership conflicts. We won't see an end to this situation in our lifetimes. There will continue to be skirmeshes and occasional "incidents". Israel will continue the standoff, one day at a time, well into the future.

2) How many Arab nations opened their doors to take in Palestinians when they were displaced? How many open their doors now? There is a lot of anti-Israel rhetoric because it is popular. Talk is cheap. War is costly. Who stands to gain from a war with Israel? No nation stands to gain as much as Israel is prepared to loose.

3) Israel's threat to "take it all the way" is really the only way it can go, the way the cards are now. And even if Israel is eventually cornered and launches spoil-sport nukes, that still won't be the end; only the end of the ten-thousandth chapter of this story.
June 28th, 2011  
Prapor
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtticStatic
1) Its not going to happen today. Certain pieces of land seem to have a history of ownership conflicts. We won't see an end to this situation in our lifetimes. There will continue to be skirmeshes and occasional "incidents". Israel will continue the standoff, one day at a time, well into the future.

2) How many Arab nations opened their doors to take in Palestinians when they were displaced? How many open their doors now? There is a lot of anti-Israel rhetoric because it is popular. Talk is cheap. War is costly. Who stands to gain from a war with Israel? No nation stands to gain as much as Israel is prepared to loose.

3) Israel's threat to "take it all the way" is really the only way it can go, the way the cards are now. And even if Israel is eventually cornered and launches spoil-sport nukes, that still won't be the end; only the end of the ten-thousandth chapter of this story.
1) Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt.

3) Don't talk like a tough guy. Israeli army is not tough. No offense, but after I've seen the movie 'Budrus', I know it.

Attacking unarmed women...

PATHETIC.

Yes, I am not hypocrite. We have people like that in Russia too. Yuri Budanov, the former 'officer', raped and killed a little Chechen girl. But, here is difference, this is how he ended up

Real men (not all of them Chechen either) found him and had their way with him. We have justice, we have honor.

In Israel though, the men who beat women, girls, with sticks, are praised as heroes.

Yes, I'll probably get some nasty messages from admins for this post. But, I had to say what i did. I am sorry if it offends someone. It is the truth.
June 29th, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
Well Prapor.

You must remember that IDF is a conscript army, including whatever rotten apples you may find in any population in any given country.
There are bad-people, and there's good-people, and there's no way we can sort them out.
The IDF have extremely capable units, just as good and maybe even better than many, and there's regulars with different standards.
The main problem I suppose is that they have grown up in a state where peace have never existed, and they've been told time and time again that they are fighting with their back against the wall, or the sea in this case.
And that their enemy is "children of a lesser God" doesn't make the situation better.

There are examples of IDF elite troops who have failed miserably, and there's examples where IDF reservists has performed beyond their theoretical capabilities.

The problem is not so much the people, as the ideology behind their actions.
The state of Israel is a fact, and it will be for all forseeable future, but in order for Israel to prosper they will be forced to solve problems within their own borders some day.