The next Arab-Israeli war - Page 4




 
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May 9th, 2010  
philpost
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Oh, but there is a way.

The only thing is, that no one will actually bite the bullet and tell Israel that a great mistake was made when Britain reneged on their promise to give the Palestinians a state of their own in return for their alliance against the Turks in WWI; and that they, (the Israelis) will have to return the stolen lands to it's rightful owners.

Now you can say what you like about it being impossible, blah, blah, blah,... but that is the simple truth of them matter and the longer it is allowed to go on the harder it is going to be and the more lives it will cost. The Israelis are not going to listen to anyone else and are not interested in the truth, believing that they have some weird religious "right" to be there, and the Arab nations are never going to just let the matter slide while a people are pushed off their land and/or exterminated.

The truth is that there is no easy way out, and so long as the present arrangement exists war is going to fester in the Middle east the effects of which are going to keep organisations like Al Quaeda in business until the matter is settled.

The only other workable alternative is that all Arab/Muslim nations in the world will have to be exterminated to a man, and that just ain't gunna happen.

It would be a lot easier and less painful to just give the Palestinians their country back. The sooner it happens the less misery for all concerned.
Except the British promised the Jews a state of their own for their help in WWI as well, and the largest portion of that state was carved into Jordan, which has a majority Palestinian population ruled by a transplanted Arabian dynasty that ibn-Saud pushed out of Saudi and the Brits installed (file under "perfidious albion"). While you choose to use the word "stolen", Jews feel the land was stolen from them. Look up "if I forget thee O Jerusalem" and go from there; it's in a book most people have lying around. And that verse was only written after the first go-round. Check out the Arch of Titus for the visuals of the second go-round.
I'm no apologist for specific Israeli governments or actions, but to completely de-legitimize national aspirations that have existed for close to 2 millenium hardly seems like the path to peace. Of course you could ask the Kurds or the Basques how it's working out for them.
May 9th, 2010  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan
But what would happen to all thos egainfully employed politicians? Come on Senjo, you know that they too have a right to life, worms that they are.

Actually I agree with you, someone (the US) needs to man up and not only tell the Israelis what they're doing is wrong, but to make them see the consequences of their actions, through sanctions and reduction of military aid.
What really p*sses me off is that no one,... not the politicians nor the public wants to do anything about it. The simple fact is that the only viable answer will be painful for Israel,... but the alternative will be unbearable for the remainder of the world and will see us involved in warfare in one Muslim country or another in perpetuity, all the time battling terrorism in our home countries.

We can win the battles easy enough, but we will never win the war. Not without killing every Muslim on earth. Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran,... you can choose your own scenario from there on in. In the mean time Muslim extremism will be nibbling at us from within in our own countries. It seems that our governments aren't big enough between the tits, to face either the cause or the solution.

The Israelis are living in a dream world, eventually the world is going to say that they have had enough and something is going to have to be done, just as it did in South Africa, and that had reached nothing like the proportions that this has.

The most obvious impact is that if we are honest, it must be admitted that virtually all of the worlds present problems with fundamentalist Islam have their roots in Israel's persecution of the Palestinian people and the support of that persecution by the Western powers.

Israel is now showing behaviour that would cause us to call any other similarly behaving country, a rogue state, already having told the worlds most powerful country, to mind their own business when asked to stop stealing more Palestinian land.

Where to from here?
May 9th, 2010  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by philpost
I'm no apologist for specific Israeli governments or actions, but to completely de-legitimize national aspirations that have existed for close to 2 millenium hardly seems like the path to peace. Of course you could ask the Kurds or the Basques how it's working out for them.
Just out of interest wasn't it Canaanite land 3 millennium ago, so theoretically it was stolen then as well.

I can't see there being another major Arab-Israeli war in the near future simply because there is no real reason for the Arabs to go to war of course should Israel make an attempt on the Iranian nuclear program and then I am going to guess it will be through Syria but predominantly an Iranian backed effort.
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May 9th, 2010  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by philpost
"if I forget thee O Jerusalem" etc etc.
What exactly are you trying to say,... are you trying to present some religious Mumbo Jumbo as evidence of alleged wrong doing in the real world?

Also, I think you'll find that the Brits promised the Jews a state in Palestine after it had been promised to the Palestinian people, (The Balfour Declaration)which is what this is all about. A clear cut double cross of the Palestinian people.
Quote:
This promise was made via a letter from Arthur James Balfour to Lord Rothschild on November 2, 1917, that became known as the Balfour Declaration (appendix B). Incidentally, the Declaration did not promise a Jewish State for the Jews; it promised a homeland, along with certain and specific conditions, to wit:
". . . it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.....
May 9th, 2010  
ravager
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Oh, but there is a way.

The only thing is, that no one will actually bite the bullet and tell Israel that a great mistake was made when Britain reneged on their promise to give the Palestinians a state of their own in return for their alliance against the Turks in WWI; and that they, (the Israelis) will have to return the stolen lands to it's rightful owners.

Now you can say what you like about it being impossible, blah, blah, blah,... but that is the simple truth of them matter and the longer it is allowed to go on the harder it is going to be and the more lives it will cost. The Israelis are not going to listen to anyone else and are not interested in the truth, believing that they have some weird religious "right" to be there, and the Arab nations are never going to just let the matter slide while a people are pushed off their land and/or exterminated.

The truth is that there is no easy way out, and so long as the present arrangement exists war is going to fester in the Middle east the effects of which are going to keep organisations like Al Quaeda in business until the matter is settled.

The only other workable alternative is that all Arab/Muslim nations in the world will have to be exterminated to a man, and that just ain't gunna happen.

It would be a lot easier and less painful to just give the Palestinians their country back. The sooner it happens the less misery for all concerned.
can't hold on comment , thanks seno .... finally someone meet their senses at last ....
when will it begin ?? as soon as israel launch an attack over iran .... as simple as that ....
how ?? i just don't know .... only one thing for sure .... it's going to bad n miserable on all of us ...





forgive my english mate
May 9th, 2010  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager
can't hold on comment , thanks seno .... finally someone meet their senses at last ....
when will it begin ?? as soon as israel launch an attack over iran .... as simple as that ....
how ?? i just don't know .... only one thing for sure .... it's going to bad n miserable on all of us ...

forgive my english mate
Your English is far better than my Indonesian.

Solving this problem is not going to need rocket science, all it takes is for people to forget the politics and religious mythology, and revert to using some basic morality.

No one has the right of return to a land where they have been absent for 1200 years,... and even if they did, they have no right to steal the land off of it's real owners beating, imprisoning and killing those who try to defend it.
May 9th, 2010  
ravager
 
 
on arak mate .....

i don't mean to exaggerate things ... but it's not me who brought the subject in the first place . care to remind me here ... it's sensitive issues we talk 'bout here eventually led to ... you know where mate
why don't we just settle one issue before another , ..... trust me dudes all the hardships n trouble you've been through ..... comes only from one roots

palestinian roots











just a cliche view from a moslem world .... oh why can't we just live in peace .....
May 12th, 2010  
Botak
 
 
Even as far as religious mumbo jumbo goes, the argument that "God gave them the land" is null and void - if you've read the Christian Bible, it's quite clear that God wasn't too happy with the way things were being run by the Israelites, so he quite happily let the Assyrians take the joint away from them. I would remind those inclined to argue for Israel on religious grounds; He giveth and he taketh away... get-eth the f***eth over it.

Regardless, I don't see how the current situation can be resolved by one side claiming they have a right to the joint based on whatever historical fact that gets drudged up. There's been so much fighting over that piece of real estate, it's a bit of a nonsense even trying to think in terms of original ownership.

The reality is, you've got two lots of people in one small space who both want to live in it, preferably without a) copping a mortar round in their synagogue every other day or b) having an F-16 Sufa drop a cluster munition in their crowded arab neighbourhood to kill a single jihadist with a twelfth century mindset who might not even be a Palestinian local anyway.

Like it or lump it, at the moment there are just too many on both sides who still aren't willing to budge, and probably still won't be the day they drag the world's nations into a clusterf--- of unholy proportions.
May 13th, 2010  
Twilight
 
In fact .. that will be no arab israel wars soon unless israel wanted to attack syria or lebanon then we will found the middle east is ball of fire from israel and us from side and on the other side will found (iran-syria-hezbollah-for sure hamas-(may be egypt if we count mubarak politique)) .. and may be the circle get wider later .... who knows....

The only Solution i can see.. That israel have to give the lands back to palestine i know it seems hard for them but if they look at it from other way they ill see that ... they will have a natural relations with the arab ...and the whole world and every body in israel will feel secure and so the arabs ....will be no more hate no more wars just they have to say that to themselves what if we was Palestinian and start to make decisions from that way
June 15th, 2010  
Justice
 
If things in the Middle East deteriorate as bad as they have been lately then war is really not far away or far fetched.... But one must keep in mind that if we talk about a true Arab-Israeli war in the sense of all out wars the likes of the 6 day war or the October war then we must also remember that Israel will not be facing only 2 front line countries... Israel will be facing a combination of Syria/Iran/Lebanon/Palestinians with material and political support from GCC countries, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Pakistan etc... This will be a war unlike anything Israel has ever fought before, and it will be a war to the death because The Arabs like Syria will not wana lose because a loss would be a loss of power for the Assad family, Iran would not wana lose because a loss to Israel will be a mortal blow, and Mubarak cannot stay silent and not join his Arab brothers for if he does stay silent you will witness him being hung from a light post by his own generals and public for disgracing the Arab nation and finally Israel will not wana lose because it will mean irreversible damage to its standing worser than the recent Lebanon war.... So their you go, you will have parties that will fight to the death because a loss will be a mortal blow to each, and now thats a reciepe for disaster of epic proportion, a war that will drag for years costing hundreds of thousands of death, trillions of dollars in damages and war cost.