News from Germany- speechless!

ObjSRgtLw

ObjSRgtLw

Active member
On http://www.bamm.de/ appeared an open letter calling people to meet at the new Bundeswehr-monument in Berlin. The purpose of the meeting is to celebrate every fallen German soldier! The two anti-military/ freedom groups invite everyone to free sparkling wine at the monument every time a soldier falls. Also they claim that every fallen soldier is the right step towards disarmament in Germany. Here's the picture:
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The title is: "Feste feiern wie sie fallen." which is like "one must celebrate when one has the opportunity"- in German though the word "fallen" for "falling" is included which is used in this context for pure irony- celebrating fallen soldiers...
In Germany there are laws to protect Police and other institutions from such deflamations but not for the military- so it's not even against the law to initiate such meetings and celebrate fallen soldiers.

Maybe now you have an idea of how damaged people and their relation to the military in Germany are...

Feel free to comment- I imagine this would not be possible in America or other nations- at least not officially without punishement by law.



Note: My Military University has pressed charges but it remains to be seen if this will have any chance of success.
 
There was some religious nuts in a little Church here in the states that would go to soldier's funerals & cause problems.
 
Not punishable by law in the United States.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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They may be stupid, ridiculous remarks (Westboro Baptist Church anyone?) but it's completely legal.
 
As German I gotta recognize the event is well legal and even letigimate and that I want it to be like that, however sad this event makes me.

Rattler
 
I feel that laws like that, actively promote public disobedience.

These groups only advertise these things so they know that the press and Police will be there to protect them.
 
Feel free to comment- I imagine this would not be possible in America or other nations- at least not officially without punishement by law.
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It's nothing new, been happening since Viet Nam.
 
I really feel sorry for the Germans. A lot of bad things happened, and they were as much the victims of Hitler as anybody else. To me what has happened to the German people is akin to putting a woman in prison for 12 years because she was raped. It just ain't right to punish the victim. It simply doesn't work.

The Other Guy said:
Not punishable by law in the United States.

They may be stupid, ridiculous remarks (Westboro Baptist Church anyone?) but it's completely legal.
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Heh. I bet their minds'll change when their chucrch and homes burn down and the only fire department that can help is mostly gay....
 
I would be willing to bet that Americans have more respect for the German military then the German public.
 
Big_Z said:
I would be willing to bet that Americans have more respect for the German military then the German public.
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That's an easy bet- I'd make that too. It is true- that's the sad truth... at least after all I know. Many Germans lost their respect for soldiers who serve the country - we abandoned Patriotism after ww2-
Most Americans I know have respect towards Germany because we again became strong (not only in an economical way) and now we may be seen as one of the strongest Powers in Europe against Terrorism and instable forces nearby like Iran- whatever the public or political feeling in Germany may be at the moment- in the end we would fight to protect our way of life which is very similar to the way Americans and other "Western Civilizations" use to live. For most people the long period of peace made them blind- the will to fight to preserve the future is seen as unnecessary risk- 'just don't get anyone angry and we will be safe'. The reality will get them- it will get all of us eventually ;).

@redneck: I didn't lose my hope yet- but the decision leaving the country after my service ends is getting real strong. After all Germany is a great country- a country many soldiers I know are willing to die for- of course it's sad that the people we want to protect/help want to celebrate our deaths- but how often is the hero treated badly- only if it brings him down he loses really.

@Forum: sorry for 2nd post- seems that my internet tricked me- it was unintentional.

@law-protection: there's already a fine for disrespecting Policemen- why shouldn't there be one to protect soldiers aswell, maybe that would stop people from spitting at us in public places...
 
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Sorry you gotta put up with that guff Lieutenant. I'd be a bit undone myself. While I realize that both here and in Germany they have the right to do it.....

Just having the right don't make it right.

Gutless farkin cowards.
 
Hmmm said:
Heh. I bet their minds'll change when their chucrch and homes burn down and the only fire department that can help is mostly gay....
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Not sure how freedom of speech correlates with arson, or what's wrong with a gay firefighter, but whatever.
Big_Z said:
I would be willing to bet that Americans have more respect for the German military then the German public.
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Well, with what the saber rattlers have done there in the past, that's almost understandable.
 
So some of you are saying one should not be proud of what Germany is now and respect the soldiers fighting for Nato/EU/UN etc.?
And if the answer is yes- when are we allowed to have patriotism back in germany? Never? Every generation that was directly linked to Nazi-Germany is almost dead now. And on the other side- I and I think many others too are not ashamed having ancestors who fought for Germany in WW1 or 2. These soldiers were fighting in the field for their comrades and their country like every other soldier- ally or enemy. I don't think you may call everyone a bad Nazi- of course a lot of ugly things were done by Germans but name one nation that has not killed innocent people in their history- still Russians have Patriotism- Americans have Patriotism although they almost eradicated americas natives and had slavery a long time... all that I want to say is that the argument "they should not have patriotism again because they did those things in the past" is to my mind not a very good one- if that were true there would be not many nations with patriotism left...
Or am I mistaken on this one?
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
@redneck: I didn't lose my hope yet- but the decision leaving the country after my service ends is getting real strong. After all Germany is a great country- a country many soldiers I know are willing to die for- of course it's sad that the people we want to protect/help want to celebrate our deaths- but how often is the hero treated badly- only if it brings him down he loses really.
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This is what I did when I was in.
For me, the military was my real world and the rest of the country was a gigantic toilet.
Every now and then you need to go and get that stuff out of your system but you can't stay there.
So if you choose to stay, that may be a way to deal with it.
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
So some of you are saying one should not be proud of what Germany is now and respect the soldiers fighting for Nato/EU/UN etc.?
And if the answer is yes- when are we allowed to have patriotism back in germany? Never? Every generation that was directly linked to Nazi-Germany is almost dead now. And on the other side- I and I think many others too are not ashamed having ancestors who fought for Germany in WW1 or 2. These soldiers were fighting in the field for their comrades and their country like every other soldier- ally or enemy. I don't think you may call everyone a bad Nazi- of course a lot of ugly things were done by Germans but name one nation that has not killed innocent people in their history- still Russians have Patriotism- Americans have Patriotism although they almost eradicated americas natives and had slavery a long time... all that I want to say is that the argument "they should not have patriotism again because they did those things in the past" is to my mind not a very good one- if that were true there would be not many nations with patriotism left...
Or am I mistaken on this one?
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You are correct, and I would never say Germany or any Country should not have pride or patriotism. Germany has come a long way from 1945 and while it is part of Germany's history it is the past and should remain so. Germany has since the 50's maintained her obligations as a member of the free world.

AS far as the post you are referring too, maybe consider the source.
 
I agree with the last post. With certain exceptions (and we all have plenty of those) the post WW11 Germany has taken its place at the table admirably.

When I used to spend time in Hamburg in 1951 the country was in ruins, crushed.

Personally, I now take care to refer to the terrible crimes of WW11 as those of the Nazis, in order not to heap them upon generations who did not exist at that time.

On this score, I have every sympathy with ObjSRtLw.
 
Well... People dont trust the military institutions anymore...
And I dont blame on their positions, maybe their methods, but that's it...

I personnaly think that the military have no legitimacy beyond defense of the law. And even in our modern democracies the military are under the orders of the political system. And I dont know if they told you, but believe me, the political system cares about money... They call this "economy"... but I call it business...

We have professional soldiers, fully trained and equiped obeying the orders of business men... Or worse... People without ideologies trying to spread it in the world... The situation is very bad...

We havent done some very important things, like isolating the defense from the politic/economic...

And we are paying the price for that everyday... And now, citizens are starting to attack the soldiers' dignity...
 
Hearing these kinds of things makes me sick to the core.. regardless of what country is being affected..

I know that here in Australia there is an anti-war group, not terribly sure of thier name, but they send insulting letteres to families of fallen soldiers..

One of the followers even had the audacity to hand a letter to the widow of one of our fallen at his funeral!

Soldiers defend the country that they serve... but who defends the soldier?
 
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