New standard issue pistol for British troops

Trooper1854 said:
If its anything like the time the got rid of the SLR then most will be sent to the grinders.

I think they went with the Glock because nearly all Police ARVs use them.
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I have heard (I cannot remember where from however) that a few of the police forces in the US are getting rid or have got rid of their Glocks. The reason I heard was, there have been too many ND's. If this is true or not I don't know.

As a matter of interest is dead easy to convert a Glock to full auto, its been done here is South Africa.
 
I had a scar at the base of my middle finger, caused by pushing the release,on the Browning, when easing working parts forward.
 
One of the benefits of having been in an Army Reserve (i.e Territorials for you British folk!) unit that's in the centre of Western Australia and right on the edge of a desert, was that we got to meet interesting people from various units from around the world who were using our vast expanse for vehicle and also desert training.

As such, the Australian SASR used to visit quite regularly to conduct car commanders training courses, desert survival, demo courses and so on.
They also hosted the British SAS at my barracks in the early part of 1990. I had the luck to have a boss who was also a member of the Army Reserve and she let me take several days off work so I could 'volunteer' to assist both SAS units as a general dogs body and guide.

I was able to get my grubby little mits on all the mainstream weapons* used by both units and the Brit SAS had SIG P226 pistols at that time. Their experience with the SIGs encouraged the Aussie SAS to try them.

* including mortars hehehehehe but not the Mk19 unfortunately because although Brit SAS brought one of them with them, the armourer forgot to include the pintle cradle... weapon - tick, ammo - tick, cradle - oops... so no firing that then :(
 
Tankboy said:
I had a scar at the base of my middle finger, caused by pushing the release,on the Browning, when easing working parts forward.
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Who's a silly Billy then?:p

One of the best I've seen is when the shooter has the left thumb over the right thumb when firing, the slide comes back and rips a nice pair of groves in the offending left thumb. I did chuckle. Then there is the idiot who shot himself through the leg, destroying his femur just above the knee. He said when he bought the firearm, "I know all there is to know about guns."
 
BritinAfrica said:
. As a matter of interest a chap in UK fired Mk2Z ammunition out of his P08 (otherwise known as a "Luger"), the rear pin sheared off securing the action to the frame and took a lump out of his face.
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I thought people learned that lesson with MP-40 ammo just after the War....
 
George said:
I thought people learned that lesson with MP-40 ammo just after the War....
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Mk2Z ammunition was made for SMG's like the MP40 ammunition. I forget all the details now but I think it was something like a 125 grain bullet at 1300 fps, seriously hot. It goes to show how good the Browning Hi Power was to handle such high pressures.
 
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IMHO dont blame the gun for NDs blame the person. There is an extraordinarily simple series of events that need to take place for a weapon to fire. Even the lack of a safety shouldn't cause you a problem.


Stick to your drills and you won't have a problem.
 
True true,
this example is with a rifle but In saying that during my firearm training the drills were taught to the exclusion of what each action actually did- perhaps to simplify things. As a result the order of the unload drill was cocked up nearly every time by someone or other who hadnt been brought up with them- an expensive mistake! guys lost money some weeks.
Safety being off as a result of putting the rifle down on something was another common one, though having one at all is better then not i agree and the steyrs is very easy to flick on and off when moving.
I have pretty big hands and the sig we use is pretty much the limit of the controls i can reach with one hand.
 
captiva303 said:
IMHO dont blame the gun for NDs blame the person. There is an extraordinarily simple series of events that need to take place for a weapon to fire. Even the lack of a safety shouldn't cause you a problem.


Stick to your drills and you won't have a problem.
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When blokes are dead tired they make mistakes, in Northern Ireland I heard of a bloke doing an unload on his L1A1, except he was so tired he failed to take off his magazine. "BANG." He got the statutory time in the glass house, being extremely tired bordering on exhaustion is no excuse.

As I've said, I've known of quite a few ND's with the Glock and these blokes weren't novices, I've also heard as I mentioned some police forces have got or are getting rid of them because of ND's in the heat of the moment, even those with a New York trigger fitted.

Its like saying the STEN is perfectly safe with a full magazine fitted as long as you don't drop it.
 
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We had a few NDs out in NI,with the Browning, mostly at night.
When unloading, and releasing the working parts forward, a couple of guys put a loaded mag back on.
That's why I used my finger!.
 
Tankboy said:
We had a few NDs out in NI,with the Browning, mostly at night.
When unloading, and releasing the working parts forward, a couple of guys put a loaded mag back on.
That's why I used my finger!.
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I've never liked the British Army way of pulling the trigger on an empty chamber, it can result in a broken firing pin. I've had to replace dozens of firing pins on customers pistols, revolvers and rifles because of "dry firing."
 
By now the Browning's owned by the the UK Forces must be clapped out, mind you they were pretty well worn when we had them in the 1950's. I found the Browning a fairly reliable weapon and easy to use but some of the lads had a party trick with it that resulted in a number of deaths or injuries. The Gloch I used a few years back when invited back to my old Regiment and I found it a much better bit of kit than the Browning whose design was getting on for a hundred years old
 
George said:
That's what I figured! As I said, thought we had already learned that lesson!
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Something came to mind, the Germans were issuing P08's and P38's, I cannot imagine them making two types of 9mm parabellum ammunition one for SMG's and one for handguns, so could their ammunition be a softer load then the Mk2Z?

I have fired a Mk2 STEN on the range with PMP 115 grainers at around 1100 FPS and it performed perfectly OK (for a STEN).
 
On a range a Sten gun is fine, but loaded and in action or just chasing around then it was deadly. There was no safety catch on it and any jolt could start it firing on its own. It got to a stage if I had to carry one I would not put the magazine in it till I needed to fire the dam thing. I must say I was glad when the Stirling replaced it it
 
LeEnfield said:
On a range a Sten gun is fine, but loaded and in action or just chasing around then it was deadly. There was no safety catch on it and any jolt could start it firing on its own. It got to a stage if I had to carry one I would not put the magazine in it till I needed to fire the dam thing. I must say I was glad when the Stirling replaced it it
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I was very cagey with the STEN even on the range, the only safety was a slot cut into the receiver for the bolt, but far from fool proof. I was issued the Sterling, it was a cracking and much safer bit of kit, and surprisingly fairly accurate on single shot despite firing from an open bolt.
 
BritinAfrica said:
Something came to mind, the Germans were issuing P08's and P38's, I cannot imagine them making two types of 9mm parabellum ammunition one for SMG's and one for handguns, so could their ammunition be a softer load then the Mk2Z?

I have fired a Mk2 STEN on the range with PMP 115 grainers at around 1100 FPS and it performed perfectly OK (for a STEN).
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Best I recall there was some way they knew witch round was for, been too long to remember, but the MP-40 round was supposed to be a lot hotter & too hot for the P-08. Haven't seen any comparisons to the Mk2Z. Along the same lines of not using PPSH ammo in your Broomhandle.
 
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