NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

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NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

This is probably the best e-mail I've seen in a long, long time. The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye from GA. This guy should run for President one day...

"We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other liberal bed-wetters. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights."

ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes. (This one is my pet peeve...get an education and go to work....don't expect everyone else to take care of you!)

ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.

ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.

ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful. (AMEN!)

ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from! (Lastly....)

ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!
 
It is against United States Law for the United States of America to be labeled as a "Christian" Nation by the United States Government.... or for the Federal Government to demand a belief in a "one true god" system of Religion - and that Law is from from the Founders of this Nation, this Nation being the United States of America, not Cuba.

Furthermore, as per Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli....

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
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.... approved by President John Adams, explicitly states that the United States of America was not founded on the Christian Religion.
 
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Gator said:
It is against United States Law for the United States of America to be labeled as a "Christian" Nation by the United States Government.... or for the Federal Government to demand a belief in a "one true god" system of Religion - and that Law is from from the Founders of this Nation, this Nation being the United States of America, not Cuba.

Furthermore, as per Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli....



.... approved by President John Adams, explicitly states that the United States of America was not founded on the Christian Religion.
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Do you know the entire story behind that?
 
Gator said:
It is against United States Law for the United States of America to be labeled as a "Christian" Nation by the United States Government.... or for the Federal Government to demand a belief in a "one true god" system of Religion - and that Law is from from the Founders of this Nation, this Nation being the United States of America, not Cuba.

Furthermore, as per Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli....



.... approved by President John Adams, explicitly states that the United States of America was not founded on the Christian Religion.
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I don't know where you get this type of information from but it's certainly not from John Adams' mind.


"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If `Thou shalt not covet' and `Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.
John Adams, A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787​



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Missileer said:
I don't know where you get this type of information from but it's certainly not from John Adams' mind.




"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776​



"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If `Thou shalt not covet' and `Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.​

John Adams, A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787​
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Do you have Federal Government Law which contradicts my Post?

I can offer http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Amend.html


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As for the Treaty of Tripoli, well you can try all day long to rewrite Official US History to fit your Religious Beliefs, but that will not change Official United States Government History on the matter.
 
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Gator said:
Do you have Federal Government Law which contradicts my Post?

I can offer http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Amend.html


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As for the Treaty of Tripoli, well you can try all day long to rewrite Official US History to fit your Religious Beliefs, but that will not change Official United States Government History on the matter.
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You don't even know what was behind the Treaty of Tripoli do you....Face it look up the founding fathers they where all religious...

To say this country was not founded on Christian beliefs is in fact rewriting History

Don't give me any law, because half the laws are useless and the other half pointless and most are not followed...If they are some lawyer somewhere persuades a judge to rethink the wording into a new meaning and or finds a loophole...

Furthermore stating in god we trust, or any other religious item on any government property to the best of my knowledge is not making it a law of the land or forcing it upon others. If you are really that up tight that you cant bare to see those words then why come here? Not exactly like any of those things are new...
 
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Gator said:
Do you have Federal Government Law which contradicts my Post?

I can offer http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Amend.html


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As for the Treaty of Tripoli, well you can try all day long to rewrite Official US History to fit your Religious Beliefs, but that will not change Official United States Government History on the matter.
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I'm not disputing the fact that the Constitution was written such that no religion could be proclaimed a National religion and all could peacefully worship in their own way. What I do dispute is your proclamation that religion didn't play a big part in the lives of the founders. A belief in God or a Supreme Being was discussed at great length during the Congressional Convention so one has to believe that religion influenced the thoughts that went into the basic morality of the Constitution itself.

I can find no personal letters or speeches by those present at the Convention disavowing the existence of God or a Supreme Being or Creator of the universe. To understand the thoughts behind the Constitution is to understand the Constitution itself. Otherwise it's just ink and parchment.
 
Missileer said:
I'm not disputing the fact that the Constitution was written such that no religion could be proclaimed a National religion and all could peacefully worship in their own way. What I do dispute is your proclamation that religion didn't play a big part in the lives of the founders. A belief in God or a Supreme Being was discussed at great length during the Congressional Convention so one has to believe that religion influenced the thoughts that went into the basic morality of the Constitution itself.

I can find no personal letters or speeches by those present at the Convention disavowing the existence of God or a Supreme Being or Creator of the universe. To understand the thoughts behind the Constitution is to understand the Constitution itself. Otherwise it's just ink and parchment.
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And yet the word "god" was so pretentiously left out of the United States Constitution.
One would think that such a pious group of individuals would have put forth the effort to thank their god in the United States Constitution when in the process of writing it, or saying that the United States Constitution was founded on, or at least in part on Religious Law or Religious Values, if in fact that be the case.
 
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Gator said:
And yet the word "god" was so pretentiously left out of the United States Constitution.
One would think that such a pious group of individuals would have put forth the effort to thank their god in the United States Constitution when in the process of writing it, or saying that the United States Constitution was founded on, or at least in part on Religious Law or Religious Values, if in fact that be the case.
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The idea of relief from religious persecution was what brought the pilgrims to America in the first place. The Founders had an inborn aversion to a theocracy by the time they formulated a secular Constitution. A little abstract thinking is necessary when interpreting any document not written by one personally. The high moral values of each article and ammendment is evident and obviously written for a populace, not a congregation.

As for your claim of the level of piousness of each framer, we'll just have to let history be the judge of that.
 
Missileer said:
The idea of relief from religious persecution was what brought the pilgrims to America in the first place. The Founders had an inborn aversion to a theocracy by the time they formulated a secular Constitution. A little abstract thinking is necessary when interpreting any document not written by one personally. The high moral values of each article and ammendment is evident and obviously written for a populace, not a congregation.

As for your claim of the level of piousness of each framer, we'll just have to let history be the judge of that.
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Saying that the United States of America was founded on the "Christian Religion" amounts to a Theocracy.



Treaty of Tripoli - Article 11

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
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And I ask myself, what Religion would a bunch of 18 Century intellectuals forming a Government in America use as guide other than the "Christain Religion"?.... if I had to pick one that is. But, the "in any sense" phrase means that I do not have to pick any, as there were none used.

That, along with the US Constitution itself seems to put Official United States Government History on my side.

As for the United States Constitution, I add nothing to the United States Constitution and I take nothing away from the United States Constitution..... not my opinion, not your opinion, not any opinion.... except that of the United States Supreme Court.

I believe it best to have a Government where Religion is completely separate from Government and Government is completely separate from Religion.
 
Gator, you're repeating over and over words that I have not written. I think every shot of common sense just whistles through your rigging. I give up.
 
Missileer

The Founding Fathers came from many different backgrounds, many different countries of origin and many different faiths.

I don't deny that some, perhaps most, were men of religous faith, but some were not. Nor do I think the term "supreme being" is an acknowledgment of any faith. Some might have acknowledged a higher power but not necessarily as a deity.

But regardless of what their personal views were, the fact that they went out of their way to keep these personal views out of the crafting of the consitutution is unmistakeable.

All references to "God" in US Government such as "under God" or "In God we trust" were added much later, which is unfortunate as it created a string of problems.
 
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mmarsh said:
Missileer

The Founding Fathers came from many different backgrounds, many different countries of origin and many different faiths.

I don't deny that some, perhaps most, were men of religous faith, but some were not. Nor do I think the term "supreme being" is an acknowledgment of any faith. Some might have acknowledged a higher power but not necessarily as a deity.

But regardless of what their personal views were, the fact that they went out of their way to keep these personal views out of the crafting of the consitutution is unmistakeable.

All references to "God" in US Government such as "under God" or "In God we trust" were added much later, which is unfortunate as it created a string of problems.
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Proof that Religious Fanatics don't just come from the Middle East, and they don't just pray to allah.
I thank my God that the Founding Fathers who came up with the US Constitution were not Religious Fanatics of their day.
 
mmarsh said:
Missileer

The Founding Fathers came from many different backgrounds, many different countries of origin and many different faiths.

I don't deny that some, perhaps most, were men of religous faith, but some were not. Nor do I think the term "supreme being" is an acknowledgment of any faith. Some might have acknowledged a higher power but not necessarily as a deity.

But regardless of what their personal views were, the fact that they went out of their way to keep these personal views out of the crafting of the consitutution is unmistakeable.

All references to "God" in US Government such as "under God" or "In God we trust" were added much later, which is unfortunate as it created a string of problems.
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Recognize this?

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.​
 
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