New Orleans crisis - Bush's fault?

Ah you're trying to equate possible future terrorism to a past natural disaster. What kind of a response would you like other than I think you are wrong to do so? I think it's apples and oranges. Frankly, I don't care who you voted for nor do I care who you plan to vote for. It might be news to you but the president doesn't control the details of what FEMA does. He has already replaced the director and seeing that nobody can go back in time, that's all he can do.
FEMA was waiting in the wings with the resources they had and waited for the governor to allow them to come into the state. States' right still apply in this country. It's really quite simple. I know it's getting to be the fashionable thing to criticize the administration whenever possible but I find it better to form my own opinions based on the facts as I know them. That way I don't feel like just another sheep in the herd.
You saw the water coming 7 days in advance huh? You must have a crystal ball bigger than the moon. In my experience, nobody and I mean nobody can predict a hurricane's path or intensity 7 days in advance. If you think you can, I know some guys in Miami that want to talk to you.
Just my 2 cents!
 
DTop said:
It might be news to you but the president doesn't control the details of what FEMA does.

Yeah, he kinda' does. He created "Homeland Security" He was instrumental in its development. It isn't like this is some government beurocracy from Carter that he inhereted. He created the damned thing. The President has this thing called a "cabinet" where he commands his advisors to carry out his orders... you may have noticed that guy sitting on his right... yeah, that guys is the director of homeland security. More than any other arm of his government, this agency is his.

Or maybe you're right? Oh that crazy war in Iraq, how can you expect Bush to deal with that! I mean, DUH, Rumsfeld is the head of the Defence Department, what do you want Bush to do? It isn't like it's his job to do anything but fire heads of departments, right?

DTop said:
He has already replaced the director and seeing that nobody can go back in time, that's all he can do.

What kind of logic is that? "Come on guys, I'm just the most powerful man in the world that takes 30-50% of your annual income, what do you want from me? Security! ha ha ha you're funny. But, hey, we've got baseball cleaned up of steroids. That's what you pay us for! hahaha security, I'm still on how funny it is you think I should be able to do that!"

DTop said:
You saw the water coming 7 days in advance huh? You must have a crystal ball bigger than the moon. In my experience, nobody and I mean nobody can predict a hurricane's path or intensity 7 days in advance. If you think you can, I know some guys in Miami that want to talk to you.

Yeah, I'm sure Terrorists will post up satelite pictures like this

750px-Hurricane_Katrina_wind_swath.gif


weeks and days before the attack, and you're right about the other thing, water and radiation are apples and oranges. Oh, how lucky New Orleans would have been if only it had been only been nuked or blanketed in VX Gas that hangs in the air for days making victims spasm so hard they break their own back instead of the travesty that is WIND and WATER!!! Poor FEMA having to face all that... water...
 
Whispering Death said:
Mmarsh is stating the obvious.

DTop isn't even responding to what I wrote.

My point is, if the government can't respond to a disaster like a hurricaine that we have multiple ones every year hit our coast... how can we expect the same "Homeland Security" department to respond to a nuclear attack?

You can't respond to water in New Orleans what makes you think they're going to be able to respond to radiation in Dallas or Mustard Gas in Chicago or Small Pox in New York?

It's F*ing WATER that we saw comming for 7 days in advance!

The reason I'm so harsh on the Bush admin. about Katrina is because that was the moment he lost me. I voted for a president who would keep me safe from a cabal of islamafacists that are the most evil men on the planet and now I find out he can't keep people safe from water.

Billions of tons of water are usually more destructive than a couple of guys with backpacks filled with explosives. "Nature" is often a far deadlier enemy thant your fellow human.

Mohmar Deathstrike said:
Mod edit: Warning: Do not continue to post meanigless comments such as this that do not contribute anything to the thread.

This was a reference to a recent South Park ep, in which a beaver dam breaking caused the deaths of several billion people according to the media. This in turn was a parody on the exaggerated death toll the media propagated after the New Orleans flooding.

tomtom22 said:
What you heard was ridiculous. The Entire population of the USA is less than 300 million. Italian Guy gave you some figures, why do you have to persist in this kind of senseless post when the facts are known?

Also, the population of earth is estimated as being below 7 billion :roll:
 
Whispering Death said:
DTop said:
It might be news to you but the president doesn't control the details of what FEMA does.

Yeah, he kinda' does. He created "Homeland Security" He was instrumental in its development. It isn't like this is some government beurocracy from Carter that he inhereted. He created the damned thing. The President has this thing called a "cabinet" where he commands his advisors to carry out his orders... you may have noticed that guy sitting on his right... yeah, that guys is the director of homeland security. More than any other arm of his government, this agency is his.

Or maybe you're right? Oh that crazy war in Iraq, how can you expect Bush to deal with that! I mean, DUH, Rumsfeld is the head of the Defence Department, what do you want Bush to do? It isn't like it's his job to do anything but fire heads of departments, right?

DTop said:
He has already replaced the director and seeing that nobody can go back in time, that's all he can do.

What kind of logic is that? "Come on guys, I'm just the most powerful man in the world that takes 30-50% of your annual income, what do you want from me? Security! ha ha ha you're funny. But, hey, we've got baseball cleaned up of steroids. That's what you pay us for! hahaha security, I'm still on how funny it is you think I should be able to do that!"

DTop said:
You saw the water coming 7 days in advance huh? You must have a crystal ball bigger than the moon. In my experience, nobody and I mean nobody can predict a hurricane's path or intensity 7 days in advance. If you think you can, I know some guys in Miami that want to talk to you.

Yeah, I'm sure Terrorists will post up satellite pictures like this

750px-Hurricane_Katrina_wind_swath.gif


weeks and days before the attack, and you're right about the other thing, water and radiation are apples and oranges. Oh, how lucky New Orleans would have been if only it had been only been nuked or blanketed in VX Gas that hangs in the air for days making victims spasm so hard they break their own back instead of the travesty that is WIND and WATER!!! Poor FEMA having to face all that... water...
It seems to me that you're being quite unreasonable when you persist in the belief that the pres. directs the daily working of FEMA. FEMA is just a part of Homeland Security. If you want to discuss whether this is a good thing or not, that is another issue and another thread. So the answer to the question of whether he runs the day to day working of FEMA is no, he kinda doesn't.
Yes, he did in fact inherit FEMA.
FEMA can trace its beginnings to the Congressional Act of 1803. This act, generally considered the first piece of disaster legislation, provided assistance to a New Hampshire town following an extensive fire. In the century that followed, ad hoc legislation was passed more than 100 times in response to hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and other natural disasters.....
President Carter's 1979 executive order merged many of the separate disaster-related responsibilities into a new Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Among other agencies, FEMA absorbed: the Federal Insurance Administration, the National Fire Prevention and Control Administration, the National Weather Service Community Preparedness Program, the Federal Preparedness Agency of the General Services Administration and the Federal Disaster Assistance Administration activities from HUD. Civil defense responsibilities were also transferred to the new agency from the Defense Department's Defense Civil Preparedness Agency.
http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm
What does FEMA have to do with the war in iraq? :roll:
Nuclear bombs, terrorists, VX? These imaginary scenarios and boogey men have nothing to do with the facts of Katrina.
You keep glossing over the fact that FEMA couldn't and didn't move into LA until the state's governor asked them to. That was the major cause of the delay,not President Bush, not Donald Rumsfield, not you, and not me.
As far as satellite pics of hurricanes go, you can't take a picture of something that hasn't happened. Besides what you posted is not a satellite photo. Hurricanes are quite unpredictable. If they weren't nobody would ever have any excuse for being caught up in one, would they?
Well, I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. If not I'm sure you could find a way to blame that on the President too. It's kinda cold here today, I think I'll write the President and explain that for what I pay in taxes, I should expect to be kep warm :roll:
Believe whatever you want, we just plain disagree on this issue.[/url]
 
It is a wonder that they have not blamed Bush for the actual storm its self, from what I could see was that New Orleans seem to weather the storm okay, well fairly well. The big troubles started when a large barge that was lose hit one of the levies and smashed through it, this happened from what I can see on one of the lowest sections of this town causing the Maximum problems. The pressure from this breach just tore a huge section away, then this was followed by a second hurricane that passed close by causing the water to rise again adding to the flooding. From what I can see of America the City and the State are responsible for this sort of work and central government will respond to requests for aid and assistance. It would appear that both the City and state Officials did very little until the last moment probably hoping that the hurricane would skirt around the city as it has done so often in the past. When things went pear shape then it was the Central Governments fault and not theirs.
 
It seems to me that you're being quite unreasonable when you persist in the belief that the pres. directs the daily working of FEMA. FEMA is just a part of Homeland Security. If you want to discuss whether this is a good thing or not, that is another issue and another thread. So the answer to the question of whether he runs the day to day working of FEMA is no, he kinda doesn't.
Yes, he did in fact inherit FEMA.


Well in essecne your both right. Bush did inherit FEMA however it falls under the control of the department of Homeland Secruity which Mr. Bush did most certainly create. He appointed the director of both, its silly to say mr bush is blameless in all of this. He could of been more invovled and more pushy. I dont think the president should take too much heat over it however he needs to learn his lessons and not appoint cronies.
 
Rabs, I didn't say he was blameless. I did say he was responsible for appointing the head of FEMA and he has replaced him. I agree that IMO, he has accepted his share of the blame but other politicians have yet to the same.
 
Let me straighten out the FEMA thing for you.

FEMA makes equipment and aid available to State and local goverments, thru their SEMA - State Emergency Management Agency.

It works like this. FEMA asks SEMA what do need. SEMA says we need 200 D9 CATS, Air Support, Medical etc. etc. etc.. FEMA then makes the assets available thru interstate compacts and federal assets.

The problem with NOLA that everyone wants to harp on in FEMA about is that the aid was late.

FEMA asked SEMA and SEMA said "Duh I don't know." Because they didn't have a plan so they didn't know. That rests squarely on Blanco and Nagin.
 
03USMC said:
Let me straighten out the FEMA thing for you.

FEMA makes equipment and aid available to State and local goverments, thru their SEMA - State Emergency Management Agency.

It works like this. FEMA asks SEMA what do need. SEMA says we need 200 D9 CATS, Air Support, Medical etc. etc. etc.. FEMA then makes the assets available thru intrastate compacts and federal assets.

The problem with NOLA that everyone wants to harp on in FEMA about is that the aid was late.

FEMA asked SEMA and SEMA said "Duh I don't know." Because they didn't have a plan so they didn't know. That rests squarely on Blanco and Nagin.

Exactly my thoughts as I understand how FEMA works.
 
IMO Louisana and New Orleans leaders should bear more of the blame for the cluster :cen: that ensued than FEMA. FEMA can only operate effectively if the State and local goverments have a plan for major incidents be it natural disasters, terrorist attacks whatever.

Right FEMA had seven days. Well so did the respective Goverments of New Orleans and Lousiana. They could have put their SEMA incident command centers together put their major incident plans into operation (if they had any, which I doubt.) They didn't . They sat on their hands and waited. Then when it hit and they were unprepared and befuddled suddenly it was FEMA's fault.

I happen to think that given the circumstances the respective Federal Agencies DHS, DOD and FEMA did a pretty good job of getting assets and bodies there once they figured out that the State and Local Goverments screwed the pooch.
 
[SIZE=+1]E-Mails Show How Katrina Swamped La. Gov.[/SIZE]

December 4, 2005 | DOUG SIMPSON


BATON ROUGE, La. - As looters and Hurricane Katrina floodwaters ravaged New Orleans, Gov. Kathleen Blanco's top aides were inundated with requests from around the world, from celebrities, dignitaries and people whose relatives were trapped in the city, according to newly released documents.

Dan Rather and Oprah Winfrey wanted interviews. An outspoken congresswoman wanted a security escort in the flooded city. Cuba's dictator offered medical help; Venezuela's president wanted to chat with the governor.

The correspondence also shows that Blanco staffers also sought to boost her image and debunk rumors about rampant violence.

"FYI, the shooting of looters in Jefferson Parish is still unconfirmed," said an e-mail message from a state police lieutenant to Bob Mann, Blanco's communications director, four days after the storm struck.

The contents of Mann's e-mail inbox from Aug. 23 through Sept. 6 - hundreds of messages each day - make up part of the estimated 100,000 pages of documents Blanco's office sent on Friday to two congressional committees investigating government failures in preparing for and responding to Katrina.

Many are police reports about traffic, weather and crime, logs of calls from people needing to be rescued, plus public statements from the governor and day-by-day official reports on flooding, refugees and evacuation efforts.

Typo-laden e-mail messages deal with improving the public's perception of Blanco, who in the early days of the crisis appeared on television looking stricken and grim, and once wept during a news conference. In response, her aides sought ways to play up her strengths, even while the news media continued broadcasting images of thousands of people waiting to be rescued.

"We need to show the public that we've moved x number of people ... That all the shelters in La are full," speechwriter Chris Frink wrote in a Sept. 3 e-mail. "TV is giving the public a view of this entire crisis based on small, limited perspextives."

Blanco's aides were also aware of racial politics - an issue conjured up by the crowds of black New Orleanians who were forced out of their homes by flooding, then waited for days to be rescued, without food or water. When U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, a black Democrat from California, requested security escorts for a New Orleans visit, the head of state police denied the request, saying troopers were busy elsewhere.
Johnny Anderson, an assistant chief of staff to Blanco, warned colleagues to be cautious in dealing with Waters, who is often outspoken about race.
"Please handle this very carefully," Anderson wrote in an e-mail. "We are getting enough bad national press on race relations."

Other e-mails reflect the need to dampen rumors that swirled about violence and deaths. On Sept. 3, Blanco chief of staff Andy Kopplin reminded staffers not to pass on unfounded information, after he heard that evacuees had been quoted on the radio saying eight people per hour were dying inside the Louisiana Superdome. The report was false.
"Ok, please don't spread info like this even if conveyed by media as it is unconfirmed," Kopplin wrote.

Larry King, Dr. Phil, Oprah Winfrey and other television stars wanted Blanco on their TV shows; reporters from around the world wanted to interview her.

Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela, contacted the governor's office on Aug. 30. He wanted Blanco to call him back to discuss Katrina.
"This might be one we should return as soon as possible," Paine Gowen, an executive assistant to Blanco, wrote in an e-mail.

Cuban leader Fidel Castro offered to send medical help. Louisiana economic development chief Mike Olivier wrote in an e-mail he had spoken with the Cuban ambassador. He suggested some sort of response to the dictator's offer: "Even a written email from the Governor would be good."
The documents involving the storm were requested by the House Committee to Investigate the Preparation for and Response to Hurricane Katrina and the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

Blanco has said the documents will reflect that "dedicated employees of the state of Louisiana worked tirelessly and effectively during this period to save many thousands of lives."

Blanco initially opposed the congressional investigations, saying an independent committee should instead be formed similar to the panel that looked into the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The House committee has also requested documents from the White House and other federal agencies regarding their response to the disaster.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13324931.htm
 
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