New Iranian fighter jet?

Lunatik

Lunatik

Active member
I think we've all already seen the F-5 variant called Saeghe 80:
saegheh3.jpg


http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3775&stc=1&d=1167145414

Apparently that plane was just the begining. There are a few images coming out that may show the new final product. Iranian media has been hinting about a new fighter jet but they never showed anything yet. Recently they only released a drawing of it:

azarakhsh29it.jpg


Notice the relocated air intakes. They moved them from the sides to the shoulders, which now look more integrated to the rest of the airframe. This is said to have significant reduced RCS benefits. Also, as per an agreement with the Russians, this plane will be using Mig-29 engines or some other variant of the same thrust class.
 
Its not really a new plane if memory serves me right. Its a heavily modified F-5 Tiger that uses double tail fins; new engines and some various electronic upgrades to fire newer Russian missiles. Basically the reworked a old US design so that it would accept Russian equipment onboard.

I dont think the Iranians have the capability to produce a entirely new airframe
on their own.
 
Agreed, but it's better than nothing. They sure are taking steps in the right direction.
 
Paste on

It's basically a paste on kit Iran has like the weakest air force in the Gulf region. It just shows what a great design the F-5 was that it keeping on ticking after all these years. Chile and Brazil has very advance F-5 II/III and Brazil's are data link. A small European NATO equipped/trained Air Force with some tanker support could handle Iran's AF.
 
Looks like they took the nose of an F-5, the wings of an F-16, the tailfins of an F-18 and the intakes of the Convair Sea Dart and threw them all together.

Yuck.
 
Even if Iran is trying desperately to improve its domestic arms production capabilities, the reality of the situation is not so good (for many reasons) and most of the “national” products (this “upgraded” F5 included) are just publicity stunts aimed at galvanizing its own population and enhance the national pride.
 
As oil as gas revenues increase more and increasingly better defense projects should follow. I'm not a big fan of Iran's current government but being one of the oldest civilizations on the planet, I think the people of Iran deserve to be at a much better level with a much better administration. I was glad to hear that Ahmedinejad went to Ankara for an official visit the other day, this marked the first time ever he officially visited a NATO country. I hope this is a sign of change in the right direction.
 
That sounds good on paper; unfortunately the reality is not following as expected.
The increased oil revenues are for the moment mainly creating inflation (we would need a tread on its own to discuss that).

It is certain that increased revenues can boost eventual purchases of foreign military equipments, but for the national industry the picture is quite different.

On the other hand; I think that it is unfortunate to “mix” Iranian history and the realities of today.
Actually I think that many of their industrial (among others) problems are coming from a firm belief that “we are the oldest civilization and therefore the best”, all this together with chaotic management based upon religious “qualities” instead of technical knowledge has brought Iran in the mess that they are today.
 
c/Commander said:
I'm surprised they aren't spending more time upgrading the remaining F-14s they have on hand.
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Because the F-14 is a far more complex aircraft. Even with all the parts you'd need the tomcat was a very difficult aircraft to fly and maintain, a reason for its downfall. Unlike the F-5 or F-16 which are incredibly simple aircraft, you start drilling holes in the F-14 where there aren't supposed to be and the airframe is liable to implode. The F-14 was so unstable that several simply exploded in mid flight.
 
The F14 is also much more complex to build, and if they where to one day attempt a national “mass production”, an aircraft of the F5 family would me more reachable than a reverse engineered F14.
Anyway the F5 is 50 years old, and the F14 40 years old, so there is not very much to get out of these airframes.

Since Iran has the unfortunate habit of selecting big and powerful enemies, they will always have difficulties in creating an air force that could really defend their national interest.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
No, but they too can just walk out in the streets with IEDs and AK47s and with a little patience they'd still win.
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In a way yes… Unfortunately “we” are trying to install democracy and “freedom” in to an area of the planet that have never known anything else than tyranny and oppression.

The only way (in my opinion) to win is such a case, is to be more brutal than the enemy himself. Kill their leaders and systematically eliminate all suspected opposition. The real problem is not the poor uneducated idiot that blows himself up or installs the IED, but that their leaders are allowed to “exists” and that “we” are blocked by democratic rules and rights.
 
Roald Amundsen said:
In a way yes… Unfortunately “we” are trying to install democracy and “freedom” in to an area of the planet that have never known anything else than tyranny and oppression.

The only way (in my opinion) to win is such a case, is to be more brutal than the enemy himself. Kill their leaders and systematically eliminate all suspected opposition. The real problem is not the poor uneducated idiot that blows himself up or installs the IED, but that their leaders are allowed to “exists” and that “we” are blocked by democratic rules and rights.
Click to expand...

Thing is that you are over looking several factors:
1) No one anywhere in the world likes to be occupied by a foreign power.
2) Democracy doesn't work unless the people you are inflicting it on are prepared to accept it and fight for it.
3) Carrying out a mass slaughter in the name of freedom really doesn't work for civilised countries.

To carry out your "plan" would alienate the people at home and in the occupied countries which would be a disaster for all concerned, the only way around this is to be a dictatorship yourself and that raises all sorts of logic issues.
 
MontyB said:
Thing is that you are over looking several factors:
1) No one anywhere in the world likes to be occupied by a foreign power.
2) Democracy doesn't work unless the people you are inflicting it on are prepared to accept it and fight for it.
3) Carrying out a mass slaughter in the name of freedom really doesn't work for civilised countries.

To carry out your "plan" would alienate the people at home and in the occupied countries which would be a disaster for all concerned, the only way around this is to be a dictatorship yourself and that raises all sorts of logic issues.
Click to expand...

Maybe I was not expressing myself in a clear way.
It is not at all my “plan” and I do not at all think that it is the way to go.
But I surely believe that it is probably the only viable solution (hence there is no solution).

You are completely right in your 3 points and that is why I mean that “we” are “handicapped” by our moral rules and inspirations.
It is obvious that it is a positive moral handicap and we cannot go outside our democratic framework, but on the other hand; by remaining inside, “we” cannot win either.

This probably drifted a bit of the topic and all my excuses to the tread starter.
 
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