http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/14/israel.netanyahu/index.html
Now lets sit back and see what happens...
Now lets sit back and see what happens...
Netanyahu accepts 2 state solution
i think that with Barak Obama it is the best Bibi could get,and if the palestines will have no army than thats a very nice achevment.
though i wont get a chance to get Humos from Gaza lol i think this could benefit both Israel and the palsetinines.
moreover the Iranian Nuke can get more attantion from the US and the world.
one thing i do not understand is why on earth wioth all the hunger a\in the world,with the sudan crisis and all the Poverty in the wrold,how can one little bnuilding in one little settelment makes a diffrence to Ms Hussian.
though i wont get a chance to get Humos from Gaza lol i think this could benefit both Israel and the palsetinines.
moreover the Iranian Nuke can get more attantion from the US and the world.
one thing i do not understand is why on earth wioth all the hunger a\in the world,with the sudan crisis and all the Poverty in the wrold,how can one little bnuilding in one little settelment makes a diffrence to Ms Hussian.
That is true but there are prices to pay for peace and security. One of these prices is that we cant expand the settelments and at the same time claim we will eventually leave them.
From their initial responses they want more. The palestinians want israel to start negotiations after it already gave up everything. Hammas wont recognize Israel anyhoh. Even the PLO wont. So we are building towers in the air.
mmarsh
Active member
This is very different tune he was singing a few months ago. Ill believe it when I see it, but frankly I seriously doubt Netanyahu turned over a new leaf. Actions speak louder than words.
There is something else that bugs me too which casts doubt on Bibi's intentions. Netanyahu said a "demilitarized Palestine". What country would ever be foolish enough to strip itself of all military protection, especially with a hostile nation next door? If hamas were to offer recognizition to Isreal on the condition that Isreal completely demilitarize do you honestly think Isreal would ever agree to it? I think not.
So can we honestly expect the Palestinians to agree to those ridiculous terms? This sounds more like political maneuvering to accommodate Washington than any real attempt to find peace. I think the Isrealis know perfectly well the Palestineans would not accept such terms.
There is something else that bugs me too which casts doubt on Bibi's intentions. Netanyahu said a "demilitarized Palestine". What country would ever be foolish enough to strip itself of all military protection, especially with a hostile nation next door? If hamas were to offer recognizition to Isreal on the condition that Isreal completely demilitarize do you honestly think Isreal would ever agree to it? I think not.
So can we honestly expect the Palestinians to agree to those ridiculous terms? This sounds more like political maneuvering to accommodate Washington than any real attempt to find peace. I think the Isrealis know perfectly well the Palestineans would not accept such terms.
Last edited:
mmarsh...Dear mmarsh. Sometimes you surprise me with your thinking. Ofcourse it has to be demiliterized. You really expect Israel to allow a real army 20 minutes drive from Tel Aviv? Demiliterized dose not mean no guns, no RPGs. It means no airforce. No tanks. No artillery. And they shouldent have a hostile state, there wil be peace.
The Palestinians wont agree. Even if he wouldent say demiliterized they wouldent agree. They refuse to accept Israel as a state, that is the main problem, and the first problem. We have no reached it quite easily. We are willing to accept their rights, they are not willing to accept ours.
And ofcourse its political manuvering. Everything is political manuvering.
The Palestinians wont agree. Even if he wouldent say demiliterized they wouldent agree. They refuse to accept Israel as a state, that is the main problem, and the first problem. We have no reached it quite easily. We are willing to accept their rights, they are not willing to accept ours.
And ofcourse its political manuvering. Everything is political manuvering.
Partisan
Active member
i think that Netanyahu is treading a dangerous line. He has publicly embraced the 2 State solution, whilst setting the conditions to ensure that it never happens.
Absolutely the State of Israel must be recognised by the Arab world. By the same token Israel has got to do something a bit more than say we won't move until everyone else does.
I am sympathetic to Israel, but even I'm getting a bit fed up with this belief that the USA will support Israel, so the state will do what it wants.
There is a hell of a long way to go, after all this situation was centuries in the making, so these are hopefully just the opening negotiating positions.
Absolutely the State of Israel must be recognised by the Arab world. By the same token Israel has got to do something a bit more than say we won't move until everyone else does.
I am sympathetic to Israel, but even I'm getting a bit fed up with this belief that the USA will support Israel, so the state will do what it wants.
There is a hell of a long way to go, after all this situation was centuries in the making, so these are hopefully just the opening negotiating positions.
mmarsh
Active member
Yes actually I do. Put yourself in the Palestinean shoes for a moment, after living under 30 years of occupation do you really think they would give up their human right to self-defense? Of course not, Nobody would. As I said, if Isreal were given that type of condition for peace by Iran would it accept? So why does it insist on terms that Isreal herself wouldnt accept on herself. Every nation has the right to self-defense, including Palestine. Besides a unprotected Palestine would be a very attractive target to one of the Arab dicators, and I dont think the IDF will go rushing to Palestine's Defense in such a situation.
Frankly it would be far much better for Isreal Security if Palestine did have an Army. A fully trained and equiped Army thats loyal to the Palestinean Government, rather than the current situation of splinter groups under no central control that operate independantly and are answerable to no one. Thats far more dangerous in my book.
I could see creating a demilitarized zone like the one seperating the two Korea's, but to insist that the ENTIRE country be unarmed is just not going to happen. As Partisan said talking Peace while placing conditions that ensure peace doesnt happen is not really talking peace. The Palestineans will reject catagorically such a deal and I dont blame them.
Last edited:
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Given the size of the territory on offer here there is no way they could implement a demilitarised zone.
Last edited:
mmarsh
Active member
There is already a no-mans land around Jerusalem. And yes it couldnt be a big area, but it could be large enough to keep out the smaller stuff like RPGs and short range stuff. I dont see the Palestineans having a massive army anyway, they are broke would would pay for it?
do you think that a country would need an amry after its only enemy has peace with them?
i know that 2 years after Israel gets her peace with the arab world the military would be much smaller,becasue there wil be no need to.
but when u are facing a country wose leaers are breaking their own agrremnts and killing each other(!) then i would say,go ahead give them a country,army,air force,tank.(i was sarcastic ofcourse) the "palastinias" sould be hapy they get anything at all.
becasue as we know,and as the french know (that is for mmarsh) the one who has the greater streanght gets to decide what is going to happen look up WW1 WW2 and see what the french and britains told the Germans to do and they agreed because they just had to.
now if there will be no peace after the "palastinias" get their country,or there will be but they will break it,and thuier 300 tanks would go stright to Tel-Aviv and Haifa and Rishon what would the world say then?
the world must understand that these men want the whole cake,and will no settle for least and the world has got to understand that it is it's duty to stop them.
i know that 2 years after Israel gets her peace with the arab world the military would be much smaller,becasue there wil be no need to.
but when u are facing a country wose leaers are breaking their own agrremnts and killing each other(!) then i would say,go ahead give them a country,army,air force,tank.(i was sarcastic ofcourse) the "palastinias" sould be hapy they get anything at all.
becasue as we know,and as the french know (that is for mmarsh) the one who has the greater streanght gets to decide what is going to happen look up WW1 WW2 and see what the french and britains told the Germans to do and they agreed because they just had to.
now if there will be no peace after the "palastinias" get their country,or there will be but they will break it,and thuier 300 tanks would go stright to Tel-Aviv and Haifa and Rishon what would the world say then?
the world must understand that these men want the whole cake,and will no settle for least and the world has got to understand that it is it's duty to stop them.
mmarsh
Active member
And what does that change? All countries are entitled to self-defense. Isreal cannot reasonably expect that Palestine would accept such a stipulation. No country would. The right of self-defense is a guerenteed right of all nations. Would Isreal accept peace with Iran if Iran held demilitarization of a condition of the peace agreement? Nobody would accept that.
mmarsh
Active member
No, its not that Isreal defends itself but thats because Isreal use of force is often disproportionate to the threat faced. The last round of attacks in Gaza resulted in over 1000 dead, most of which were civilians (many children too). The number of Isreals was (I believe 50) or so.
I remember a rather egrigious case a few years back where the IAF dropped a bomb on an Apartment killing a terrorist, but also killing the 20 other people whose sole crime was to live at the same building as the terrorist.
Thats what makes the world angry.
Oh and BTW, Read my sig: Im American, I work In France.
Last edited:
so if u are american then u guys ( and i support it greatly dont get me wrong) destroyed 3 countries becasue 2 buidlings fell on u.
remember ww2? Drezden? about 250K women and children were killed.
back to Israel,1300 or so were killed there in Gaza 1/3 of which were civillians.
when a man shot rockets at your children from a building with even 100 inncoent men you WILL destroy that building.
let alone after u said u will bomb that building 3 days ago and warned the families and told them to get out of there.
back to the topic,with Obama in office even the extreamest right wingers would do the same as Bibi.
and Israel has come to help another nation when it was attacked,look up Lebanon-Syria conflict
we live here man,and we know way better than u what is going on and what is REALLY the case,when u will get rockets on your rooftop for 8-9 years and rais your kids in that place i would want to see u act nicly towards your enemy.
remember ww2? Drezden? about 250K women and children were killed.
back to Israel,1300 or so were killed there in Gaza 1/3 of which were civillians.
when a man shot rockets at your children from a building with even 100 inncoent men you WILL destroy that building.
let alone after u said u will bomb that building 3 days ago and warned the families and told them to get out of there.
back to the topic,with Obama in office even the extreamest right wingers would do the same as Bibi.
and Israel has come to help another nation when it was attacked,look up Lebanon-Syria conflict
we live here man,and we know way better than u what is going on and what is REALLY the case,when u will get rockets on your rooftop for 8-9 years and rais your kids in that place i would want to see u act nicly towards your enemy.
It will make a difference because this one little building is in one little settlement that symbolizes the entire issue. After the Oslo agreement this isn't supposed to happen anymore. You know that the entire world press will be on every little building in every little settlement. If you really think that building there is just some stone and plaster with a roof on top, than you have another thing coming.
And the offer Bibi made is as likely to succeed as me being able to fly on my own. Of course you can safely suggest demilitarisation, because the Palestinians will never agree. And now Bibi can say; at least we make propositions! Not really constructive is it?
as monty stated demilitarised zone wont work (your suggestion) if we will give them the right to own the big toys (your suggestion). it isn't acceptable for us so we are back in square one.....
edit: what is the purpose of peace? i think in our case its guarantee of safety. now can you honestly say that when they'll get sufficient amount of the big toys they wont start playing with them? with the hamas "charity" organization washing their brain on a daily basis, with their local news channels and school education would you count on them avoiding a mad rush towards Tel Aviv once well equipped?
Last edited: