Couldn't agree more! I never was a fan of Netanyahu and this proposal made it clear to me why. Perhaps it's just politics to offer a still born and call it a start of a new beginning....
Netanyahu accepts 2 state solution
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Demiliterized makes a lot of sense, at least in the beginning.
But I guess it makes for lousy parades.
But I guess it makes for lousy parades.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think the Palestinians can put the ball back in Israels court here by offering demilitarisation as a reciprocal deal after all a common response from the Israelis on this forum seems to be "why would they need a military if they are at peace" seems to me that argument should work both ways.
I am guessing they are already writing the obituary for this deal.
mmarsh
Active member
If North Korea offered a peace deal but that South Korea had to completely demilitarize would the South Koreans agree? If they were ever so foolish to agree, then they would deserve to be occupied.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
No it wouldn't work because South Korea doesn't have a history of attacking North Korea. If we had done so repeatedly and North Korea had been suing for alternatives for decades, offering to recognize South Korea officially, then yes it might even make sense.
Just as Japan was demilitarized for a while.
You earn your back your right to have a proper army through proper behavior.
Either way, the Palestinians have mostly used low tech approaches to attacking Israel, I don't think it would affect them that much. AK-47s, grenades, some explosives. Same as yesterday and the years before.
Israel can't afford to demilitarize because of the other non-Palestinian threats it faces. Palestinians don't have that problem as long as Israel does not attack.
Just as Japan was demilitarized for a while.
You earn your back your right to have a proper army through proper behavior.
Either way, the Palestinians have mostly used low tech approaches to attacking Israel, I don't think it would affect them that much. AK-47s, grenades, some explosives. Same as yesterday and the years before.
Israel can't afford to demilitarize because of the other non-Palestinian threats it faces. Palestinians don't have that problem as long as Israel does not attack.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Here is the break down, if they are a self governing soveriegn state then they have every right to a military should they choose to form one, either they are a nation and as such can chart their own course in the world or they are a puppet government in which case this is not 2 State solution it is just a bunch of politicians playing with semantics.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
A self defense force until they get their "Destroy Israel at All Costs" stuff sorted out isn't a bad idea and it's not without precedent.
that is one of the reasons they won't have any country in the near/distant future....
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Thats ok I don't think anyone believes this was a serious offer anyway, I am sure that had the Palestinians agreed there would have been more stipulations to ensure they couldnt agree.
Or in other words I do not believe that Israel is negotiating in good faith any more than the Palestinians are.
Or in other words I do not believe that Israel is negotiating in good faith any more than the Palestinians are.
Somalia....But this was not a "Peace Treaty". This is not Israels offer. It was a speech that made clear that after negotitations a Palestinian state is an opprtunity. The Palestinians can now come, negotiate, and probably get a better deal. If they rally want to. So I hope that ansaweres some of your question somalia.
Also as far as the right of return when Neanyahu says their will be a Palestinian state I think that solves the issue. It means they can bring in the rgefugees. Surely you dont expect us to have a Palestinian state next to us and have milions of them inside ourcountry as well?!
So far every singe compromise was made by Israel. I mean since 1948.
Also as far as the right of return when Neanyahu says their will be a Palestinian state I think that solves the issue. It means they can bring in the rgefugees. Surely you dont expect us to have a Palestinian state next to us and have milions of them inside ourcountry as well?!
So far every singe compromise was made by Israel. I mean since 1948.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I have no doubt you believe that however I think fewer and fewer others do.
The simple reality is that no country is going to accept not having a military, having no control of its air space and continually losing land as settlements "naturally grow", seriously no one is buying this as a viable option so it is hardly a "compromise".
But like I said before its just bargaining in bad faith to try and drop the ball in the Palestinian court especially since it is designed so they have no option but reject the proposal.
The simple reality is that no country is going to accept not having a military, having no control of its air space and continually losing land as settlements "naturally grow", seriously no one is buying this as a viable option so it is hardly a "compromise".
But like I said before its just bargaining in bad faith to try and drop the ball in the Palestinian court especially since it is designed so they have no option but reject the proposal.
mmarsh
Active member
I will echo MontyB on this. That maybe your opinion and perhaps the opinion of every single Isreali, but nobody outside of Isreal shares this view, not even the US.
Any peace treaty with stipulaions that stripe the Palestineans of the basic right of self-defense in not a peace treaty, its a demand of surrender. And I think Netenyahu knows this all too well.
Isreal is going to have do better, this is dead in the water.
VIEWER
that is one of the reasons they won't have any country in the near/distant future....
Neither will Isreal unless it changes it ways, Isreal is sitting on a time-bomb. This is a increasingly dangerous world, and there are many unstable groups who would destroy half the planet just to see Isreal obliterated as well. Unless Isreal changes it ways and attempts to truly defuse the Muslim world (that means a peace treaty with the Palestineans) one of these crazy groups is going acquire and detonate a WMD in Tel Aviv. Dont be arrogent to think it couldnt happen, most Americans didnt think 9-11 would happen despite all the warning signs. And these groups hate Isreal far more than they hate us. The longer Isreal delays the greater the chance something truly terrible is going to happen, the clock is ticking.
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Opinion outside Israel is worthless as far as the survival of Israel is concerned. The Israelis know that in the last resort they must rely only upon themselves.
So far, the only solution acceptable to their opponents is that the Israelis should roll over and stop breathing.
Until that policy changes, and it dates officially from the 1920's , the Israelis will continue to defend their corner as they feel necessary; they have little choice in the matter but to stay strong, even though much of the world would find it most convenient to sell them down the river.
Lecturing the Israelis on how to handle their Middle Eastern opponents is like trying to teach your grandma how to suck eggs.
They have drawn a common-sense line in the sand, all things can possibly spring from that point.
So far, the only solution acceptable to their opponents is that the Israelis should roll over and stop breathing.
Until that policy changes, and it dates officially from the 1920's , the Israelis will continue to defend their corner as they feel necessary; they have little choice in the matter but to stay strong, even though much of the world would find it most convenient to sell them down the river.
Lecturing the Israelis on how to handle their Middle Eastern opponents is like trying to teach your grandma how to suck eggs.
They have drawn a common-sense line in the sand, all things can possibly spring from that point.
where is the damn +REP button?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
It's been done before.
Isn't that the truth? It's the real reason why all efforts fail.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Where has it been done before?
What country in existence today has:
1) Agreed to no effective defence of its borders.
2) Given away control of its own air space.
3) Allowed another country to expand "naturally" into its territory?
I read from other that Israel is "compromising" but compromise is measured in action rather than talk, it is not a compromise for me to sell you my house under the condition that if my family expands I will take over rooms as I see fit and by the way you are not allowed anything that might be a threat to me nor can you use the driveway.
In the end a compromise is not about what you are prepared to give up or "loan" but what BOTH parties are prepared to accept and no one in their right mind will accept a bad deal and Israel is counting on that fact to maintain the status quo.
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Your issue is that you think if Palestinians had an independent state than Hammas wouldent do somthing like that. You basically understand as much about the muslim world as I do about maine biology(Not a lot).
What makes me laugh is that you continure to ignore the fact that even before 1967 the PLO conducted terro attacks on Israel, while what you call Palestine was infact occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Unless the Palestinians realize Israel is an actuall country and they cant just up and make it go away peace is unachieveable.
Rob Henderson
Banned
You still haven't answered my question SHERMAN.
Partisan
Active member
Reality says that Hammas will not go away, but if there is recognition and equal rights for the Palestinians - then Hammas will have less of a recruitment base. I'm sure that most Palestinians just want to enjoy their lives, be treated with respect & do the best that they can. The current situation is that they can't, they are treated as second class citizens and prevented from being able to succeed; this breeds resentment and hostility - as you sow, so shall you reap.
I agree with you - peace is unachievable, whilst the Palestinians refuse to recognise the State of Israel and whilst Israel persists in delivering its Final Solution to this problem. We can sit about and argue who did what to whom - that is history, but we're talking about the future here. History is a great teacher and one lesson we should all have learned by now is - "Keep doing what you've always done and you will always get the same results", interestingly a slight variation on this statement is one of the definitions of insanity.
Rant over, Israel has a right to exist & the Palestinians have a right to live, sinve Israel won't let them be anyhting but second class citizens - it'll have to be a 2 state solution, sooner or later someone bigger will have to step into the playpen and bang heads together if the 2 kids won't play niceley.