Naval Stuka

Indeed, that is the first time I have seen the Ju-87C but they were built to operate with the Bf-109T as carrier based aircraft.
 
I don't think that the officers running the German navy thought about aircraft and aircraft carriers as serious offensive weapons. The German navy of WWII was a navy with a small n, They were not a power projection force like the Royal, U.S. or Imperial Japanese Navies. Germany had no over seas empire to protect, it's imperial designs were limited to the Continent of Europe.
Submarines were the only weapon that they possessed to take the fight to the enemy in a sustained campaign. Their surface navy was capable of raiding type activities and making the British navy nervous, but it wasn't capable of a decisive result against the RN.
A Nazi aircraft carrier would probably be too big to use the Kiel Canal and would have to run the Denmark Strait, a very dangerous activity. And it would have to make that passage often because Germany had no means of sustaining a carrier at sea for any long period.
Germany's naval strategy had to be one of hide and ambush with subs. They were never in a position to conduct a massive sea battle on the scale of Leyte.
These comments are in no way meant to minimize the efforts and effects of a very brave and resourceful German Navy of WWII. It is a damn good thing that they were not a larger and more capable force.
 
I think you are over looking the fact that the Kriegsmarine only had a few years of development before it was at war until the mid-1930s it was constrained by the treaty of Versailles and various naval treaties.

You can build much small things such as tanks, aircraft and submarines in secret but it is hard to hide a 40000 ton battleship or carrier.
 
I think as far as the Atlantic was concerned Germany was hemmed in by Britain's Naval presence, after it's initial successes in sinking vital shipments to England via it's surface fleet. They were successful for a time with the pocket battleships. But as for a surface fleet it was to little when compared to Britain's Fleet. Aircraft carriers would likely have fared even worse.

Interesting to see the folded wings on the Stuka, like the Corsairs. I'd would bet that not many of these were built as Hitler's main empire wasn't an ocean away but to the east.

Also I think BritishAfrican made a good point for the investment could the Germans have protected an aircraft carrier?

It would be hard to sweep it under the carpet "the aircraft carrier" and where would they test it without being seen?
 
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Also I think BritishAfrican made a good point for the investment could the Germans have protected an aircraft carrier?

It would be hard to sweep it under the carpet "the aircraft carrier" and where would they test it without being seen?

Had Plan Z come to fruition yes they could have protected it but without it not a chance and they would have tested it in the Baltic where they did all their naval testing.
 
Had Plan Z come to fruition yes they could have protected it but without it not a chance and they would have tested it in the Baltic where they did all their naval testing.
Yes, the KM didn't anticipate going to War until 1947. They would have had 2 Fleet Carriers & 6 smaller(don't know how much smaller) ones, 70 Destroyers and 78 Torpedo Boats by then if things went according to plan. Of course Goering's insistence on controlling all aircraft probably would have limited the usefulness....Thinking Graff Zeppelin had 1st armored flight deck. Just didn't have the time and resources to finish her.
 
I think you are over looking the fact that the Kriegsmarine only had a few years of development before it was at war until the mid-1930s it was constrained by the treaty of Versailles and various naval treaties.

You can build much small things such as tanks, aircraft and submarines in secret but it is hard to hide a 40000 ton battleship or carrier.

Both the British and Japanese built small carriers converted from merchant ships such as HMS Activity and Audacity, easier, cheaper and faster to build and much smaller then the fleet type carrier.
 
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But?

Both the British and Japanese built small carriers converted from merchant ships such as HMS Activity and Audacity, easier, cheaper and faster to build and much smaller then the fleet type carrier.

Regardless of what type of carrier the Germans came up with as soon as they made for the Atlantic how long before they'd be sunk? Germany has traditionally been more of a land based power.

Remember that's why the Germans went to the U-boats was at 1st they were very hard to detect and very effective at sinking allied shipping. Until Allied advances in radar and sonar.
 
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Regardless of what type of carrier the Germans came up with as soon as they made for the Atlantic how long before they'd be sunk? Germany has traditionally been more of a land based power.

Remember that's why the Germans went to the U-boats was at 1st they were very hard to detect and very effective at sinking allied shipping. Until Allied advances in radar and sonar.

I agree to a point, however if merchant ship carriers had been deployed by the Germans could the outcome of the Battle of the River Plate been different or would the Bismarck have been sunk if protected by such small carriers?
 
I agree to a point, however if merchant ship carriers had been deployed by the Germans could the outcome of the Battle of the River Plate been different or would the Bismarck have been sunk if protected by such small carriers?
Even a few naval Me-109s would have had the Swordfish for lunch. Bismarck probably would have out run the R.N. surface ships, but an Escort Carrier couldn't have.
 
?

Wasn't the Battle of the River Plate between the British "3 Cruisers' and the Graff Spree "pocket battleship'?

I don't know if it were the Graff Spree and aircraft sure since the Brits didn't have any planes available for the conflict at the time. Likely due to it's location (off South America). However could such a German armada made it down their, who knows? This would be a pretty big jump for the Kriegsmarine.
 
Wasn't the Battle of the River Plate between the British "3 Cruisers' and the Graff Spree "pocket battleship'?

I don't know if it were the Graff Spree and aircraft sure since the Brits didn't have any planes available for the conflict at the time. Likely due to it's location (off South America). However could such a German armada made it down their, who knows? This would be a pretty big jump for the Kriegsmarine.
Adm. Graff Spee was classified as an Armored Ship by the KM, basicly a pre-dreadnaught style ship, Armored Cruiser probably would have been a better name. Later her Sisters were reclassified as a Heavy Cruisers. "Pocket Battleship" was a British thing, originally probably a tribute to how much the Germans squeezed into a ship of not much more than 10,000 tons. Later made the victory seem greater than it was. Deployment of a Carrier to the S. Atlantic would have been beyond their capability.
 
I agree

Adm. Graff Spee was classified as an Armored Ship by the KM, basicly a pre-dreadnaught style ship, Armored Cruiser probably would have been a better name. Later her Sisters were reclassified as a Heavy Cruisers. "Pocket Battleship" was a British thing, originally probably a tribute to how much the Germans squeezed into a ship of not much more than 10,000 tons. Later made the victory seem greater than it was. Deployment of a Carrier to the S. Atlantic would have been beyond their capability.

That's basically what I meant and I then added the hypothetical "However could such a German armada made it down their"
 
Wasn't the Battle of the River Plate between the British "3 Cruisers' and the Graff Spree "pocket battleship'?

I don't know if it were the Graff Spree and aircraft sure since the Brits didn't have any planes available for the conflict at the time. Likely due to it's location (off South America). However could such a German armada made it down their, who knows? This would be a pretty big jump for the Kriegsmarine.

I worked with a chap who was at the Battle of the River Plate, what he remembers most of all is his ship (I forget which one it was), going hell for leather towards the Graff Spree to get in range with their much smaller guns, with shell splashes from the Graff Spree all around them.

He said "We were bloody lucky."
 
I worked with a chap who was at the Battle of the River Plate, what he remembers most of all is his ship (I forget which one it was), going hell for leather towards the Graff Spree to get in range with their much smaller guns, with shell splashes from the Graff Spree all around them.

He said "We were bloody lucky."
Yes, better long range gunnery would have ruined their day, but in the event, at shorter range, the many guns of the Cruisers overwhelmed the 6 11" guns of Graf Spee.
 
Yes, better long range gunnery would have ruined their day, but in the event, at shorter range, the many guns of the Cruisers overwhelmed the 6 11" guns of Graf Spee.

From her opening salvo, Graf Spee′s gunfire proved fairly accurate, her third salvo straddling Exeter. At 06:23, an 11 in (280 mm) shell burst just short of Exeter, abreast the ship. Splinters from this shell killed the torpedo tubes' crews, damaged the ship's communications, riddled the ship's funnels and searchlights and wrecked the ship's Walrus aircraft just as it was about to be launched for gunnery spotting. Three minutes later, Exeter suffered a direct hit on her "B" turret, putting it and its two guns out of action. Shrapnel swept the bridge, killing or wounding all bridge personnel except the captain and two others. Captain Bell's communications were wrecked. Communications from the aft conning position were also destroyed; the ship had to be steered via a chain of messengers for the rest of the battle.

Meanwhile, Ajax and Achilles closed to 13,000 yd (12,000 m) and started making in front of Graf Spee, causing her to split her main armament at 06:30, and otherwise use her 5.9 in (150 mm) guns against them. At 06:32, Exeter fired two torpedoes from her starboard tubes but both missed. At 06:37, Ajax launched her Fairey Seafox spotter floatplane from its catapult. At 06:38, Exeter turned so that she could fire her port torpedoes, and received two more direct hits from 11 in (280 mm) shells. One hit "A" turret and put it out of action, the other entered the hull and started fires. At this point Exeter was severely damaged, having only "Y" turret still in action under 'local' control with Jennings on the roof shouting instructions to those inside. She also had a 7° list, was being flooded and being steered with the use of her small boat's compass. But Exeter had dealt the decisive blow; one of her 8 in (200 mm) shells had penetrated two decks before exploding in Graf Spee′s funnel area—destroying her raw fuel processing system and leaving her with just 16 hours fuel, insufficient to allow her to return home.
 
Seem to remember criticism of the performance of the 11" shells, but that may have been another battle.
 
After the Graff Spee was scuttled a Royal Naval officer rowed out to her and took photographs of her radar equipment used to aim her guns. When the photographs were sent to the Admiralty in London the senior officers apparently showed no interest. Quite frankly I'm not surprised.
 
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