Nato double standards

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Englander2

Active member
I remember at the end of WW2, it was said by the Allies,that Germany should never again be allowed to have troops in other countries. Today it is NATO which keeps calling on that land,to be more active. Recently the KSK(the modern SS) was required. Now Tornardos for Afghanistan are wanted! What do you think about this?
 
Times change and reactionary decisions are often thought better of with some distance from the precipitating event. I see no double standard.
 
Neither do I, as Germany is a full NATO Member, and as such Germany has NATO Military responsibilities.
 
I think Germany shopuld pull her weight of the duty within NATO. Having Germany have her troops is foriegn countries doesn't bother me. The DDR had her troops in a couple of Eastern Bloc Countries for a period a time. So Germany already had her troops in other countries. Plus West Germany had her troops in other countries during the Cold War for training missions.
 
Germany already has troops in several countries; Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afganistan. The navy patrols along the Horn of Africa and the coast of Lebanon. There was even an NBC unit stationed in Kuwait until 2003(not sure, but they might still be there). It seems like the only people who like to bring up the WWII argument is the German media. When Tornados were used in NATO operations in the former Yugoslavia, the German press was quick to point out that the first bomb dropped by a Tornado was on the anniversary of the Poland invasion.
 
Is there a Hitler we should be worried about again? If not, then I dont understand why Germans shouldnt be allowed to participate in NATO ops overseas.
 
The more important lessen after WWII was that France and Germany were too powerful and too close to one another to be rivals so they were forced into a sort of friendship. If anything not allowing German troops to leave Germany would only make another war more likely, "You won't let us train with the French and British troops? Fine, we'll just invade France, AGAIN."
 
Time change, countries develope new and closer connections, borders are removed and the political climate is different now than in 1945. I do not see any problems with German troops abroad and those soldiers I've met abroad have been fine and good trained soldiers doing their job professionally.
 
sunb! said:
Time change, countries develope new and closer connections, borders are removed and the political climate is different now than in 1945. I do not see any problems with German troops abroad and those soldiers I've met abroad have been fine and good trained soldiers doing their job professionally.
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Well said!
 
Germany's military might over the last century is indisputable and the bravery and tactical brilliance of German soldiers and officers is well known. Now this force can be used for good and should be where needed especially as there is no present threat of German power been misused.
 
I can't quite see how Bulldog expects anybody to educate themselves. If you all ready have the knowledge, there is no reason for the education,if you do not, how the devil do you teach yourself? We learn 10% of what we think we know, by experience. The other 90% we have been told by other people. Who can say whether they have lied to us or not? The original question was not whether germans are good or bad soldiers, but rather as to whether our own policies can be so often changed, just as it happens to suit those in power.
 
Englander2, or should I call you Solve Et Coagula, do you have a source for claim as to the origin of knowledge or did you pull these numbers out of your fourth point of contact fine sir?
 
Englander2 said:
I can't quite see how Bulldog expects anybody to educate themselves. If you all ready have the knowledge, there is no reason for the education,if you do not, how the devil do you teach yourself? We learn 10% of what we think we know, by experience. The other 90% we have been told by other people. Who can say whether they have lied to us or not? The original question was not whether germans are good or bad soldiers, but rather as to whether our own policies can be so often changed, just as it happens to suit those in power.
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What does this have to do with anything in here???

I gave you the answer by doing something we like to call research...Try to not believe all 90% of what you learn from others ;)
 
Double standards is sitting up in the comfy north while your NATO allies are taking the fight to the enemy.
 
Germany should be allowed to participate more in international peacekeeping operations because they have the capability.
The difference with Japan is that Japan hasn't really kicked out the World War II mentality. They still have territorial disputes with China, Korea and also Russia. The grounds for that has more to do with "yes we are strong enough to **** with you" rather than any REAL reason. For that matter, Saipan was absolutely positively Japanese territory before World War II. The US owns it now but the Japanese haven't said squat about it.
Germany, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have this, at least not at the scale the Japanese have it.
 
Nobody makes Germany feel guilty about WWII anymore except Germany. Nobody has any pride in being a German. Until recently, flying a German flag from your house was an unspoken no-no(but the neighbors think it's cool that I fly a U.S. flag, go figure). Germans only want the government to keep the welfare state running(30 days paid vacation a year is cool!), and leave the war fighting to the pros, like the U.S. Let me stress, that is my OPINION, not a fact.

To the facts. The government wants to be more involved, but the public is very anti-war here. The government does a good job of keeping any troop deployments quiet, and that it's always for humanitarian reasons. German soldiers are too humane for fighting(except when they caught playing with bones in a mass grave). Todays Spiegel Online(English) shows the strange situation, and how the different newspapers report it.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,465157,00.html

A couple exerpts:
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung: Behind all the efforts to limit the Tornado mission and to let it appear as if it is not a combat deployment is the hope of being just a little bit pregnant in international politics
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Berliner Zeitung: "The federal government knows and is happy that Germans don't really realize that their soldiers are currently involved in a war."
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"The fact of the matter is, so far at least, that the Bundeswehr (German army) mission in Afghanistan has matched the image of the uniformed development aid worker, who is armed for his own protection.
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If you want to read a bit more, I found this article interesting. It's from when some German soldiers in the great white north got caught playing around in a mass grave.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,444866,00.html
Bild Zeitung editorial: I would withdraw our soldiers from the Hindu Kush because (our soldiers) should remain human and not animals."
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"The fact of the matter is, so far at least, that the Bundeswehr (German army) mission in Afghanistan has matched the image of the uniformed development aid worker, who is armed for his own protection".
This above quote meets the point very well. After all, "the Germans must never again be allowed to threaten the world" (Winston Churchill).
 
Too bad he wasn't equally concerned with the hacking up of the middle east into manageable petroleum stations. ;)
 
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