National Guard on border to be armed!

5.56X45mm

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[SIZE=+2]Guard will be armed on border
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Express-News
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Web Posted: 05/26/2006 12:00 AM CDT[/SIZE]
Sig Christenson and Hernan Rozemberg
Express-News Staff Writer

The National Guard's chief said Thursday that some of his troops will work close to the Mexican border and will be armed — with rules of engagement allowing them to fire their weapons.
"Any soldier assigned to a mission where he would be placed in harm or danger, where his life would be threatened potentially, will in fact be armed and will have the inherent right of self-protection," Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum said.
The rules will be part of a larger memorandum of understanding that will guide the assignment of Guard members to the border. The agreement could be wrapped up today and sent to the border governors for their signatures.
Federal funding and troops could begin moving to states on the Mexican border next week once the Guard and Defense Department approve the document.
Blum added that the rules of engagement "will be the same in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas."
The comments, in a lengthy interview with the San Antonio Express-News, came as rules for the use of force were being ironed out at a meeting in Phoenix among representatives from four border-state governors and the National Guard.
The Texas National Guard's commander, Army Maj. Gen. Charles G. Rodriguez, said the talks on rules of engagement centered on "harmonization" between the states' different laws on self-defense.
Blum said he doesn't believe the Mexican government will react negatively to the presence of small bands of armed Guard members. Mexicans, he said, see the Guard "in a far more positive light than they would active-duty troops."
That, Blum said, is in part because of relationships established over decades with the Guard — which has helped support counter-narcotics missions — and the temporary nature of the arrangement.
The Guard is to stay on the border for two years as the Border Patrol and U.S. Customs boost their ranks.
All the troops along the Texas border initially will come from the Lone Star State, and be volunteers, said Col. Bill Meehan, spokesman for the Camp Mabry-based guard.
Rodriguez said several hundred soldiers could staff each of Texas' five border sectors, but predicted only a trickle of troops would go south in the early weeks of operations. They would be planners and liaison officers working with their Border Patrol counterparts in each sector, Rodriguez said.
Troops at vehicle inspection stops and engineers working along the border also could be armed. Weapons would vary, with soldiers carrying the M-16, variations of the rifle, 9-mm handguns and even shotguns.
"But we're not going to be carrying machine guns. We're not going to be carrying heavy weapons. We're not at war here," Blum said, explaining he wants troops "to be in a position to protect themselves."
News that the Guard would have surveillance assignments in close proximity to Mexico came as a surprise to the Border Patrol, the agency tasked with halting illegal border crossings.
Agency spokesman Todd Fraser said troops would work in support roles ranging from repairing and maintaining Border Patrol jeeps and manning surveillance cameras from remote locations to giving agents advanced firearms training.
Some troop assignments are being tweaked, he said, and soldiers' precise jobs and locations remain to be hashed out between top Border Patrol administrators and their Guard counterparts. But, Fraser said, "As far as I know, a National Guard unit deployed along the border, right on the line, that's not a scenario I had heard about."
Troops assigned to entry identification teams, as well as engineers, will be armed and won't have to wait for someone to shoot at them first — an engagement rule he termed "silly."
"If he has to fire, he has a right to fire," Blum said. "There are judgment calls that have to be made by mature, disciplined soldiers, and I'm confident that these soldiers have the discipline, the training, and the experience and judgment to make the proper call or we wouldn't be employing them in this mission."


About damn time, I'm glad that these soldiers will be able to protect themselves and the nation.
 
Chief Bones said:
Now just a cottin pickin minute ... "common sense" and the military .......... mutually exclusive terms ............
You jest, of course....Now had you said politicians, I would agree.
 
5.56X45mm said:
About damn time, I'm glad that these soldiers will be able to protect themselves and the nation.

I, off course, think that any man has a right ot self-perseverance or self defence. I do, however, doubt that many Mexicans would attack armed or unarmed groups of soldiers. The cover they need to get in to the country would be somewhat blown. And I hope that it isn´t the general view that, to protect the US, some NG think they need to shoot the Mexicans!
 
Ted said:
I, off course, think that any man has a right ot self-perseverance or self defence. I do, however, doubt that many Mexicans would attack armed or unarmed groups of soldiers. The cover they need to get in to the country would be somewhat blown. And I hope that it isn´t the general view that, to protect the US, some NG think they need to shoot the Mexicans!

I think you do not understand what it is like down on our southern border at all.

They do it all of the time against armed border patrol agents. There is no "cover" when you're jumping the proverbial and literal border fence, it's an all out mad dash and survival of the fittest. Not to mention the drug runners and Mexican military constantly coming back and forth across the border.
 
And here I thought it was standard operating procedure for US troops to be issued weapons without ammo...at least anywhere in the States. :rolleyes:

Good to know they're really arming them.
 
moving0target said:
And here I thought it was standard operating procedure for US troops to be issued weapons without ammo...at least anywhere in the States. :rolleyes:

Good to know they're really arming them.

National Guard isn't limited by the Posse Comitatus Act so that helps.
There is no SOP about being issued weapons without ammo. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean they don't have ammo, but I do understand what point you were making. Anything more detailed about that shouldn't be discussed on an open forum, though.
 
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PJ24

I have never heard of border patrol coming under fire from illegal immigrants, narco-trafferikers yes, but illegals? Most of them cannot even afford to buy guns. Besides, I though the national guard was only to be in a support role, not doing an actual patrol...

I am saying this without being sure, I very well could be wrong on this.
 
mmarsh said:
PJ24

I have never heard of border patrol coming under fire from illegal immigrants, narco-trafferikers yes, but illegals? Most of them cannot even afford to buy guns. Besides, I though the national guard was only to be in a support role, not doing an actual patrol...

I am saying this without being sure, I very well could be wrong on this.

I didn't specifically say the regular border jumpers were armed (though, I have heard cases of some being armed, guns and knives). The main issue I was getting at though, is that there is a lot of gang activity (MS13) and drug traffiking along the border, and they're all well armed. This makes it dangerous. Anyone put on the border has to be armed or there's really no reason for them to be there as they're just being set up as fluff and possibly easy targets for the more dangerous elements that are running back and forth day in and day out. (how's that for a run-on sentence?)

Every border agent I know has a "horror" story to tell, it's a pretty dangerous job.

What's the point of the NG being there if they're supposed to stand back and watch while the BP does the regular routine of not being able to round up all that are coming through? The "Support role" is supporting the BP, part of that will require patrolling and taking an active role in border security.
 
When I was in El Paso in 1987-88 there were numerous attacks by Mexicans against Americans and American soldiers in particular. One soldier having recently graduated from Basic the cycle before us was sliced open on the bridge by a "non-descript Mexican" and his intestines spilled out. Another soldier on guard duty got molotoved by an illegal he challenged.

When we pulled guard duty during Basic there we weren't issued rifles but they did give us sections of pipe to walk around with while we held watch over the Stinger missile classrooms at 3 am.

These are not peaceful friendly refugees spilling across the border Ted and MMMMMMMarsh.
 
Anyone doubting the extent of force that our beloved Border Jumping folks from accross our southern border ... anyone who doubts that many of them would kill their own mother to cross, has not know desperation as they do.

I'm still of the opinion that increasing guards along the border, or even putting up a 50 foot wall, is only a band-aid on the underlying problem. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution for it either.
 
bulldogg said:
Henderson, during Basic training no one is issued ANY weapons.
Oh, sorry, I misread the post...I thought that the guy that had recently graduated was on patrol and was only given the pipe..My bad:sorry:
 
MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha)

These folks are envolved in drug running other gang related activity. They target Law Enforcement because of a Sombra Negra (Black Shadow). Which is a death squad made up of military and law enforcement officers in El Salvador. The Sombra Negra target MS13 and other criminals and kill them. They are unsanctioned, but the Government turns a blind eye to them.

Because of the Sombra Negra, MS13 members in Northern Mexico and the USA target law enforcement officers with extreme violence.

I applied to become a US Border Patrol Agent and I almost went to the CBP academy. The only reason why I did not was because a local department picked me up before I was to ship out to New Mexico for their academy.

I was informed that since I will become a CBP agent, I should understand somethings.

1. Never take the same route home because there are folks that will follow me and target me and my family.

2. When I get home, search it with my weapon drawn. Make sure that everything is safe. People will target me and my family.

3. Always carry and watch my back because I will be targeted by someone and attacked.

The US/Mexican Border is a war zone. It's just like the Korean DMZ during the 1960s. The crap doesn't hit the fan 24/7 but it does hit. And battles do occurr on the border between CBP Agents and armed bandits.
 
El Salvadors a helluva long way from the US/Mexico border though...Is it really that often? I would expect much more from any Mexican gangs...
 
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