A nation of starving billionaires.

[BritinBritain]

Harare - Zimbabwe's central bank has introduced a Z$10bn banknote, worth $20 on the black market, to try to ease desperate cash shortages, state-run media said on Friday.

Prices are doubling every day and food and fuel are in short supply in Zimbabwe. A cholera epidemic has killed over 1 100 people and deadlock between President Robert Mugabe and the opposition has put hopes of ending the crisis on hold.

Hyper-inflation has forced the central bank to continue to unveil new banknotes which quickly become almost worthless.

New Z$1bn and Z$5bn notes were also put into circulation and the monthly cash withdrawal limit was increased fivefold to Z$10bn.

"The increase in cash withdrawal limits is set to go a long way in improving workers' access to their money," the Herald said.

But previous issues of new banknotes have done little to curb the cash crunch faced by Zimbabweans, who often line up for hours outside banks to withdraw barely enough to buy a loaf of bread.

Critics blame the economic meltdown on mismanagement by Mugabe's government, including the seizure and redistribution of thousands of white-owned farms. The once thriving agricultural sector has fallen into ruin.

The veteran Zimbabwean leader, in power since independence from Britain in 1980, says Western sanctions are the main cause of the economic crisis.

Political analysts say the establishment of a unity government between Mugabe's Zanu-PF party and the opposition Movement for Democratic Change is the best hope of reversing the economic slide and worsening humanitarian crisis.

But power-sharing talks have reached deadlock over the control of key ministries in the government. Tsvangirai accuses Mugabe of trying to assign the MDC a junior role.

- Reuters

 

[MontyB]

Yep that's one screwed up piece of real estate but what are ya gonna do most of the world have enough problems of their own to fix and Zimbabwe is a no win situation, I say seal the borders wait for the population to die off and then split the place between the neighbouring countries.

I am sorry but between failing economies, the countless failed nations and incessant television ads and phone calls to hand over $xxx dollars a month to feed a starving xxxxxxxx-ian because its own government are too busy buying weapons and building palaces to keep its population fed I really just don't care anymore.

 

[HokieMSG]

Agree. We would have to spend too much money to fix all of their problems. After we were done they would accuse us of empire building and demand that we leave. And wouldn't even say thanks.

 

[MontyB]

I just think it is time Africa as a whole grew up and started solving some of its own problems, this is probably the richest continent on earth and yet it is one giant basket case of corruption and disease.

You would think one country out of the 50 or so on the continent would be a stable beacon of hope for the rest but the whole bloody lot are disaster zones.

 

[BritinBritain]

Within 10 years of Mugabe taking over Zimbabwe, the blacks realised which way the country was going. Every time Ian Smith was seen in public he was mobbed by blacks, begging him to take over the country again.

Africa is indeed the richest continent in the world, gold, diamonds, copper, you name it, it here. Yet successive despotic dictators like Mugabe have plundered their countries resources for self enrichment, leaving their own people to starve and living in conditions that a dog shouldn't live in.

Like it or not, colonialism built up the infrastructure, schools, hospitals, roads, clean water supplies, power stations, law and order. Dictators like Mugabe cannot build and improve a nation, they use and destroy, exactly like South Africa today.

In 14 years I have seen South Africa go from the shining light in Africa, to just another African country on a downward decline.

 

[MontyB]

But as I see it there are 2 alternatives:
1) The West once again gets involved, pumps in billions of dollars that they don't really have only to turn the place over to the next generation of despotic nutjobs who promptly start raping and pillaging the place for themselves and in 50 years we repeat the process.

2) We smile and politely tell them that until they show signs of doing something for themselves they can starve, die of diseases or slaughter each other in whatever way they see fit and we will do nothing for them BUT when they are ready to grow up and develop civilised and democratic processes we will assist in any way possible at which point we cut off all communications with the place and close the borders.

Colonialism may well have been an issue 60-100 years ago but at least it left them with institutions that worked had there been someone willing to give it a shot but in the end it is they who burnt it to the ground through their own corruption.

Also if China wants to pump its money in to these places to gain favour well good for them but I am prepared to bet that China will run out of patience and cash long before any of these countries reach the point of being anything more than an aid sponge.

 

[jnnielsen]

But as I see it there are 2 alternatives:
1) The West once again gets involved, pumps in billions of dollars that they don't really have only to turn the place over to the next generation of despotic nutjobs who promptly start raping and pillaging the place for themselves and in 50 years we repeat the process.

2) We smile and politely tell them that until they show signs of doing something for themselves they can starve, die of diseases or slaughter each other in whatever way they see fit and we will do nothing for them BUT when they are ready to grow up and develop civilised and democratic processes we will assist in any way possible at which point we cut off all communications with the place and close the borders.

Colonialism may well have been an issue 60-100 years ago but at least it left them with institutions that worked had there been someone willing to give it a shot but in the end it is they who burnt it to the ground through their own corruption.

Also if China wants to pump its money in to these places to gain favour well good for them but I am prepared to bet that China will run out of patience and cash long before any of these countries reach the point of being anything more than an aid sponge.

While I agree with the overall thrust of what you say, there are several problems here:

1) We can't leave the African countries to their own devices, because then they become havens for terrorists and their training camps. This was the problem with leaving Afghanistan to its own devices, and it is a problem now in Somalia.

2) Colonialism is a dead topic to many of us, but it still rallies a lot of people. Mugabe still uses it, and the academic left still loves the topic. Check out "post-colonial studies" at any major university. This kind of clap-trap may seem pretty feeble, but there are rabble rousers who can still use it to whip up a public furor.

3) Africa is not an "aid sponge" for China. China is in Africa for purely pragmatic reasons. It is a close source of natural resources for China's industries. One of the reasons that the Sudanese government has been able to act with impunity in Darfur is the cash flowing in from trade with China. There are parts of Sudan now that are the richest they have been in history due to the influx of Chinese investment, and this is happening at the same time as the West's unheeded criticisms of the Sudanese government's human rights abuses. Why should they care what the West says when they have Chinese investment rolling in with no strings attached.

Best wishes,

Nick

 

[MontyB]

Fine then I am happy to go with plan B, nuke the stinking continent and wipe out 90% of world hunger, 50% of world terrorism and about 70% of the worlds Aids epidemic and infectious diseases in one shot.

I am somewhat tired of being held to ransom by these countries and their threats to become terrorist havens if we don't give them free meals and all the bullets they can shoot if its not the Africans its the North Koreans let them do as they threaten and sort it out as it happens.

I have no doubt that China isn't spending up large in Africa to spread peace, love and democracy but I am confident that the place is so beyond help that China will run out of cash and Africa resources long before they get their act together and become a threat to anyone.

 

[Del Boy]

Africa is surely a lost cause for the west; the African countries have to seek their own future amongst themselves. And they will never forgive us for any assistance we provide.

 

[BritinBritain]

Africa is surely a lost cause for the west; the African countries have to seek their own future amongst themselves.

Your not wrong, but, they haven't the sense or ability to do it for themselves. Then you'll get the bleeding heart bunny huggers bleating about the poor Africans despite the fact that their own leaders are bleeding them dry while they accumulate untold wealth.

And they will never forgive us for any assistance we provide.

Again your not wrong. Traditionally Africans are not builders, they are users. They cannot grasp the concept of conservation of natural resources or infrastructure expansion. They expect and demand that the west step in and sort the out the mess they created. One chap told me, “Two things will save Africa, AIDS and re-colonisation.”

 

[MontyB]

The problem with Africa is that it is at if not beyond the point of no return. It reminds me a lot of those animal cruelty stories you see where no matter how sad the case and no matter how much you would like to save the creature it is just too far gone and the best thing to do is end its suffering quickly.

Realistically there is nothing that can be done, you cant feed everyone and those you can have nothing to go back to in most cases so they are permanent aid sponges, even if you could feed people their governments are are so corrupt that those who survive are just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

Between tribalism, religion, factions, corruption, international politics, domestic politics and disease there really isn't a bright day on the horizon for the place as it currently stands so I agree the only hope is depopulation and re-colonisation.

 

[BritinBritain]

Between tribalism, religion, factions, corruption, international politics, domestic politics and disease there really isn't a bright day on the horizon for the place as it currently stands so I agree the only hope is depopulation and re-colonisation.

Spot on Monty.


Regarding depopulation. One of my customers works for a major medical insurance company, every so often they pay for satellite images of Africa from Kenya down to South Africa including Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Angola, he stated that whole native villages are vanishing from the face of the earth and returning to bush. His company has put it down to the AIDS pandemic.



A contact of mine in KwaZulu Natal have stated that funeral companies are working flat out and running out of room to bury those who die from AIDS or AIDS related diseases, so much so that they are burying multiple bodies in the same grave. Recent reports have stated that there is a negative birth rate in South Africa. Perhaps your depopulation theory isn't too far off the mark.

 

[perseus]

I agree the only hope is depopulation and re-colonisation.

If the situation was the same in New Zealand would you be happy to let nature take it's course? Would you be happy to watch a major famine or genocide take place around you with you part of it through no fault of your own? Perhaps it would have been easier to seal of the European continent in the 1940s and let Hitler get on with it along the same lines?

Personally I don't think this is an option for a civilised species and some solution must be found. Even on a Utilitarian basis I doubt if such a policy could be justified since there will be never any incentive for them to be re-colonised in a conventional sense. I agree these people for whatever reason cannot govern themselves, however, a basic safety net of aid has to be first carefully allocated.

With regards to the longer term, perhaps this is one area where privately run cooperations may have some merit, if only as an ostensible means of colonising the country without appearing to do so. I'm not taking about the likes of present day mining companies motivated purely by profit, but companies restrained by charter to provide basic amenities (health, education etc) for their workforce. These companies must be rigorously audited to route out corruption, and initially at least run by those with business experience from developed countries, assuming of course we can manage this ourselves!

 

[Del Boy]

Perseus, I put it to you that you would be the first to claim that interference by the British Empire etc., was bad thing and that Africa should have been left to develop naturally.

Well, we can't have it both ways. Mugabe has successfully returned his country to that position. Pretty, ain't it. He inherited the model and blew it to pieces.

 

[MontyB]

If the situation was the same in New Zealand would you be happy to let nature take it's course? Would you be happy to watch a major famine or genocide take place around you with you part of it through no fault of your own? Perhaps it would have been easier to seal of the European continent in the 1940s and let Hitler get on with it along the same lines?

You argument is missing the one fundamental difference that separates New Zealand and Europe from the situation in Africa, we would do something about it. In terms of Europe the world fought a war for self preservation and to prevent Hitler from "getting on with it", perhaps the Africa should do the same rather than standing around with their hands out on a daily basis.

Personally I don't think this is an option for a civilised species and some solution must be found. Even on a Utilitarian basis I doubt if such a policy could be justified since there will be never any incentive for them to be re-colonised in a conventional sense. I agree these people for whatever reason cannot govern themselves, however, a basic safety net of aid has to be first carefully allocated.

Unfortunately it is an option and the solution is simple you abandon a losing strategy, doing nothing at all is not worse than doing something that doesn't work.

With regards to the longer term, perhaps this is one area where privately run cooperations may have some merit, if only as an ostensible means of colonising the country without appearing to do so. I'm not taking about the likes of present day mining companies motivated purely by profit, but companies restrained by charter to provide basic amenities (health, education etc) for their workforce. These companies must be rigorously audited to route out corruption, and initially at least run by those with business experience from developed countries, assuming of course we can manage this ourselves!

I couldn't disagree more, you are dealing with governments that are corrupt, tribes that want to kill each other and political guerilla movements (both left and right wing) that will slaughter and destroy anyone or anything that might bring progress add to that disease and the complete lack of education and you will realise that the place is even outside the "exploitable" standards of most corporations.

If you want a solution but a very long term solution you find yourself a country that is capable of being helped and you help them, not by marching in dumping your industry, religion and values on them because that will get you hated but through training, education and trade and who knows maybe change will come from within.

 

[perseus]

Let's get this right are you saying we provide no help at all to prevent famine or natural disasters or just the day to day aid that is being misused? I guess there would be a revolution (here) if we stood by and did literally nothing!

Here is an extract that mosrly agrees with you although it suggests that a level playing field for trade is the solution. I suspect it requires more than this


So, here is what donor countries should do.

• do not spend any more money on development aid
• withdraw all aid to countries that are not pursing sound economic policies and that fail seriously to build institutions for democracy and transparency
• countries that meet these high standards should, within a limited period of time, be assisted with 'locking-in' already accomplished reforms and, in particular, with pursuing additional reforms
• rich countries should immediately open up their markets for exports from poor countries

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4209956.stm

 

[BritinBritain]

Zim Army won't support Mugabe?

Disgruntled soldiers could be signalling end for Mugabe
Junior officers warn they will take to the streets again

December 17, 2008 Edition 1

Sapa-DPA and Sapa-AP

In scenes that rattled the regime of President Robert Mugabe and stoked speculation that its days were numbered, dozens of soldiers ran amok in Harare on December 1 in protest over the country's economic meltdown.

Some bystanders watched in amazement and some joined in as junior soldiers, frustrated at being unable to access their meagre salaries because of an acute cash shortage, ran through the streets, looting shops and attacking black-market currency dealers.

Although the state moved quickly to put the genie back in the bottle, arresting 16 soldiers, who face court martial proceedings, the foot soldiers of Mugabe's repressive regime warn they are likely to hit the streets again before long.

"Just like everyone else, we have families to feed. We are suffering, just like most citizens in this country," one junior officer, Ola (not his real name) said.

Sitting in a house in Mbare township, south-west of Harare, in worn boots and faded fatigues, Ola, a 27-year-old father-of-two, and Duke (not his real name) (29), spoke of the frustration that provoked their outburst.

"There is no junior army officer who still supports Mugabe. We are tired, we are suffering," said Duke. "If a foreign army comes to fight us, we will join them or flee to a neighbouring country."

The riots began when the soldiers were forced to stand in long lines with ordinary Zimbabweans for their money at a bank ATM instead of being paid at the barracks.

"Cash ran out (at the barracks) because the top guns finished the money. We then started walking into town to queue for cash," said Ola.

"We got angry when we could not get it (the banks ran out of cash). That is when the chaos started," he said.

The rioting was the first open challenge to Mugabe in his 28 years in power from within the normally loyal military. While that loyalty is still strong among the top brass, who Mugabe has showered with gifts, including luxury vehicles and confiscated farms, junior officers, who are feeling the pinch of the economic crisis, are showing signs of fatigue. The lowest-paid soldier in Zimbabwe earns about $10 (R100) a month.

"I am now (illegally) changing money. My wife does that when I am at work," said Ola, who had just returned from the city centre to receive a money "drop" from his wife.

"Because of the recent unrest (a series of protests by unions and activists), we are not allowed to go on leave," said Duke. "They took our passports. Otherwise many of us could have fled the country and sought asylum." This comes amid widespread reports in recent months that thousands of soldiers have already deserted, mostly to South Africa in search of work.

Although the soldiers were seen attacking money changers, Ola blames the police and military police for violence during the protest. The police used batons to quell the riot.

Coming after bombings at two police stations in recent weeks that caused minimum damage and were described by police as an inside job, the riots have sparked speculation that Mugabe's hold on power could be loosening.

Ola and Duke said junior soldiers were ready to meet the Mugabe regime "head on".

"The top guns are getting payment in foreign currency but the rest of us are getting shells of peanuts," Ola complained. "We want to see if we will get a substantial salary rise in December, as they promised. Otherwise there will be another round of protests."

Meanwhile, the onset of seasonal rains has increased fears that the cholera epidemic could turn into a catastrophe, with tens of thousands more sick, and that it could spread further into neighbouring countries, the Red Cross said yesterday.

 

[A Can of Man]

All authority comes from the barrel of a gun. Lose the gun and you got no authority.

 

[papasha40]

Disgruntled soldiers could be signalling end for Mugabe
Junior officers warn they will take to the streets again

December 17, 2008 Edition 1

Sapa-DPA and Sapa-AP

In scenes that rattled the regime of President Robert Mugabe and stoked speculation that its days were numbered, dozens of soldiers ran amok in Harare on December 1 in protest over the country's economic meltdown.

Some bystanders watched in amazement and some joined in as junior soldiers, frustrated at being unable to access their meagre salaries because of an acute cash shortage, ran through the streets, looting shops and attacking black-market currency dealers.

Although the state moved quickly to put the genie back in the bottle, arresting 16 soldiers, who face court martial proceedings, the foot soldiers of Mugabe's repressive regime warn they are likely to hit the streets again before long.

"Just like everyone else, we have families to feed. We are suffering, just like most citizens in this country," one junior officer, Ola (not his real name) said.

Sitting in a house in Mbare township, south-west of Harare, in worn boots and faded fatigues, Ola, a 27-year-old father-of-two, and Duke (not his real name) (29), spoke of the frustration that provoked their outburst.

"There is no junior army officer who still supports Mugabe. We are tired, we are suffering," said Duke. "If a foreign army comes to fight us, we will join them or flee to a neighbouring country."

The riots began when the soldiers were forced to stand in long lines with ordinary Zimbabweans for their money at a bank ATM instead of being paid at the barracks.

"Cash ran out (at the barracks) because the top guns finished the money. We then started walking into town to queue for cash," said Ola.

"We got angry when we could not get it (the banks ran out of cash). That is when the chaos started," he said.

The rioting was the first open challenge to Mugabe in his 28 years in power from within the normally loyal military. While that loyalty is still strong among the top brass, who Mugabe has showered with gifts, including luxury vehicles and confiscated farms, junior officers, who are feeling the pinch of the economic crisis, are showing signs of fatigue. The lowest-paid soldier in Zimbabwe earns about $10 (R100) a month.

"I am now (illegally) changing money. My wife does that when I am at work," said Ola, who had just returned from the city centre to receive a money "drop" from his wife.

"Because of the recent unrest (a series of protests by unions and activists), we are not allowed to go on leave," said Duke. "They took our passports. Otherwise many of us could have fled the country and sought asylum." This comes amid widespread reports in recent months that thousands of soldiers have already deserted, mostly to South Africa in search of work.

Although the soldiers were seen attacking money changers, Ola blames the police and military police for violence during the protest. The police used batons to quell the riot.

Coming after bombings at two police stations in recent weeks that caused minimum damage and were described by police as an inside job, the riots have sparked speculation that Mugabe's hold on power could be loosening.

Ola and Duke said junior soldiers were ready to meet the Mugabe regime "head on".

"The top guns are getting payment in foreign currency but the rest of us are getting shells of peanuts," Ola complained. "We want to see if we will get a substantial salary rise in December, as they promised. Otherwise there will be another round of protests."

Meanwhile, the onset of seasonal rains has increased fears that the cholera epidemic could turn into a catastrophe, with tens of thousands more sick, and that it could spread further into neighbouring countries, the Red Cross said yesterday.

I think its about time Nato got involved in Zimbabwe. When the country was known as Rhodesia, and for a few years after Mugabi took power, it was known as the bread-basket of Africa. In a matter of two decades, the racist, psychotic and jingoistic Mr. Mugabe has dragged his country into hell.

The Chinese and the Russians still veto U.N. resolutions concerning Zimbabwe because of arms trade. I'm sure there are other reasons for the continued support of these two super-powers. Maybe mineral, etc, but I shouldn't surmise. But I do believe the U.N. has become so corrupt it is really of no use as a policing force any longer.

Nato members should seek out injustice and try and mend it. It is something the U.N. cannot and will not do any longer.

 

[MontyB]

Let's get this right are you saying we provide no help at all to prevent famine or natural disasters or just the day to day aid that is being misused? I guess there would be a revolution (here) if we stood by and did literally nothing!

Here is an extract that mosrly agrees with you although it suggests that a level playing field for trade is the solution. I suspect it requires more than this


So, here is what donor countries should do.

• do not spend any more money on development aid
• withdraw all aid to countries that are not pursing sound economic policies and that fail seriously to build institutions for democracy and transparency
• countries that meet these high standards should, within a limited period of time, be assisted with 'locking-in' already accomplished reforms and, in particular, with pursuing additional reforms
• rich countries should immediately open up their markets for exports from poor countries

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4209956.stm

I would agree with this almost entirely, I am less worried about the pursuit of democracy than most though as how people choose to govern themselves is really up to them and as long as it is stable and benign they can draw straws for all I care.

In answer to your question I would suggest that I meant what is described here minus the democracy bit...

• do not spend any more money on development aid
• withdraw all aid to countries that are not pursing sound economic policies and that fail seriously to build institutions for democracy and transparency

Nato members should seek out injustice and try and mend it. It is something the U.N. cannot and will not do any longer.

No.

NATO and Europe should stay the hell away from Africa and let them sort out their own mess, it is time we got away from this whole "world policing" process.

if a stable government (ie one that has the support of its people) asks for assistance then by all means get involved but I am convinced that the last 300 years of intervention by western nations has done little more than caused a lot of these disaster zones.